No smilies, no avatars, no flashing gifs. Just discuss the issues of the day, from last night's telly via football to science or philosophy.
Started by Pinkgum on 13-Feb-2017 08:31:36
Pensioners income higher than working households.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pens
ioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households


At the same time inequality between the richest and poorest Pensioners has increased. I don't want Pensioners to be living in poverty, or any other section of society to be either.

Is this another indicator of Britain's broken economy?

Previous
|
Next
|
Top
|
Bottom
Pinkgum - 13 Feb 2017 08:39:43 (#1 of 301)

So without bashing the boomer generation, what are the implications of this?

Should something be done to redress the balance and if so what?

Ginmonkey - 13 Feb 2017 08:42:30 (#2 of 301)

One of the big implications is that the state pension is paid for out of current taxation. Meaning the decreasing working population are supporting a growing elderly population.

Studies out today say that this will worsen if Brexit causes young working immigrants to leave pushing the retirement age for under forties ever northwards.

Pinkgum - 13 Feb 2017 08:51:14 (#3 of 301)

Well quite, another element of brexit to fear.

Agaliarept - 13 Feb 2017 08:51:36 (#4 of 301)

Studies out today say that this will worsen if Brexit causes young working immigrants to leave

But we've already seen in the papers that if the current lot of Europeans leave they will just be replaced by new immigrants so that shouldn't be a worry.

Ginmonkey - 13 Feb 2017 08:52:39 (#5 of 301)

From where?

Agaliarept - 13 Feb 2017 08:53:14 (#6 of 301)

I'm guessing anywhere that isn't Europe. The rest of the world?

Ginmonkey - 13 Feb 2017 08:54:51 (#7 of 301)

They can come here already you tool. We're not going to replace FOM for EU citizens with FOM for non EU citizens are we given the general atmosphere at the moment.

Agaliarept - 13 Feb 2017 08:56:00 (#8 of 301)

And third, given the global nature of the British economy and its reliance on mobility, full Brexit would likely lead to calls for increased migration from other parts of the world in order to keep key sectors of the economy, from finance to healthcare to higher education, ticking over. The employment minister Priti Patel has already been campaigning for Brexit on the basis that it would allow our curry houses to attract much-needed chefs. So it’s clear that Brexit probably wouldn’t mean lower levels of immigration overall.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun
/10/immigration-truth-brexit-would-not-bring-it-under-control


They can come here already you tool. We're not going to replace FOM for EU citizens with FOM for non EU citizens are we

Who said anything about freedom of movement? You said immigration could lower after Brexit. FOM isn't the only route of immigration.

Ginmonkey - 13 Feb 2017 09:04:41 (#9 of 301)

You think that Eastern European fruit pickers are going to be replaced by Indian fruit pickers?

Employers Wi have to jump through more hoops to empty people from outside the UK, we also haven't created a very welcoming atmosphere for non UK workers recently.

The big issue is that our population is ageing. We need working age people to pay their pensions.

Have a look at the dependency ratio.

Agaliarept - 13 Feb 2017 09:09:08 (#10 of 301)

You think that Eastern European fruit pickers are going to be replaced by Indian fruit pickers?

I have no idea. I'm basing what I said on what I've read.

Employers Wi have to jump through more hoops to empty people from outside the UK, we also haven't created a very welcoming atmosphere for non UK workers recently.

Yep, not arguing there but there are a few voices in the press who are saying Brexit won't lower immigration.

Maybe they're all wrong then.

HerrWalrus - 13 Feb 2017 09:15:27 (#11 of 301)

It's folk fortunate enough to have private/occupational pensions who are quids in. The current workforce currently struggling on zero hours contracts won't be in that situation. Still, there are some who claim the uk state pension is generous...



https://mobile.twitter.com/craig5tewart/status/831
054887353974784/photo/1

Ginmonkey - 13 Feb 2017 09:16:27 (#12 of 301)

It is about the type of immigration and the people that come here. If you are a recruiter at the moment it is as easy to employ an EU national as it is a British national. There are no visa or minimum salary requirements.

If we assume these requirements will apply to all non UK nationals post Brexit it will put off immigrants and employers from employing them, particularly in certain sectors.

Now government could be susceptible to industry lobbying and end up with loads of carve outs, they could ease immigration rules for some non EU countries as part of trade deals. This is all currently up for grabs. However all we know at the moment is that once we leave the EU we will be a less easy or attractive place for young EU citizens to come here to work and pay taxes.

Agaliarept - 13 Feb 2017 09:21:57 (#13 of 301)

However all we know at the moment is that once we leave the EU we will be a less easy or attractive place for young EU citizens to come here to work and pay taxes.

I can accept that point. I do think however the government has an interest in making a route available for immigration.

They know they need workers to fill the pension pot. I seriously doubt they will be so stupid as to choose to screw over pensioners by making it impossible to employ the very people who pay the pensions.

thisonehasalittlehat - 13 Feb 2017 09:22:53 (#14 of 301)

Some of the extra money is accounted for by work. Which makes them working households in my book.

Ginmonkey - 13 Feb 2017 09:23:34 (#15 of 301)

I hope so but you know we already have a pretty good system for allowing young workers to come here to fill skills shortages. Pity they are hell bent on trashing that for absolutely no gain.

bailliegillies - 13 Feb 2017 09:23:37 (#16 of 301)

If British pensions are so good why is it that so many die during winter cold spells because they can't afford to both to eat and keep warm.

thisonehasalittlehat - 13 Feb 2017 09:24:13 (#17 of 301)

There is a bit of statistical slipperiness here in that one group (pensioners) is defined by age and the other group (working households) defined by employment status. There's an obvious overlap here, particularly as people tend to work longer and retire later than they did a generation ago. This by itself could account for the shift in relative incomes this research records.

I reckon if you excluded the working pensioners from this analysis you'd probably find that pensioners have less income on average than working people.

Agaliarept - 13 Feb 2017 09:26:12 (#18 of 301)

I hope so but you know we already have a pretty good system for allowing young workers to come here to fill skills shortages. Pity they are hell bent on trashing that for absolutely no gain.

Yep. It's going to be a lot of work to replace a system that seemingly did what was needed.

Ginmonkey - 13 Feb 2017 09:26:12 (#19 of 301)

#16 because if you read the report it is talking about pensioners as a cohort not individuals.

Also due to a lot of extra support aimed at pensioners excess winter deaths have fallen in recent years.

thisonehasalittlehat - 13 Feb 2017 09:31:04 (#20 of 301)

I also reckon some of this may be accounted for by the rise of women in work and the growth of two income families; a proportion of households with at least one pensioner in will also have one person who has not yet retired and is earning. By basing the analysis on household income rather than individual income, this is likely to skew the average income of households with at least one pensioner. This will have a greater impact today than it did twenty years ago because of the higher number of duel income families today by comparison with twenty years ago. It's a bit of a mess this research I reckon. I'm not surprised to find it's been done by a think tank.

Research reports from think tanks usually exist to further the political aims of the think tank. Of course most people will take away the headline: british pensioners are rolling in money.

Previous
|
Next
|
Top
|
Bottom
Check Subscriptions
|
Home » UK News