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Started by DesEsseintes on Jan 1, 2019 11:06:45 PM
England 2019 (Cricket)

From the West Indies to the World Cup and the Ashes to New Zealand.

Including the matches against Ireland and Pakistan.

DesEsseintes - 01 Jan 2019 23:13:53 (#1 of 1222)

First stop, Barbados.

DesEsseintes - 05 Jan 2019 20:26:34 (#2 of 1222)

What abiding memories do you have of England tours to the West Indies?

Lara's 400? Sobers' declaration? Holding's perfect over? The Jackman Affair? The 46 All Out?

Moschops - 05 Jan 2019 20:27:46 (#3 of 1222)

The abandoned Test

DesEsseintes - 05 Jan 2019 20:33:43 (#4 of 1222)

Which one? Jamaica, or Antigua?

fogger - 05 Jan 2019 20:37:04 (#5 of 1222)

The first time I remember really listening to an away series was our Windies tour in 94. My strongest memory of that is wondering why the back up bowlers (Benjamins) kept getting us out. Also the debut of Chanderpaul and Lara's record breaking innings. A look at Wiki also said we got bowled out for 40-odd in one game, which I must have blanked out.

fogger - 05 Jan 2019 20:40:59 (#6 of 1222)

Ah, that was also the tour when Gus Fraser was momentarily a world beater.

Moschops - 05 Jan 2019 20:42:36 (#7 of 1222)

The Jamaica Test was the one I remember, was watching it thinking 50 would be a decent score.

spirali - 05 Jan 2019 21:24:58 (#8 of 1222)

I remember the 80-81 tour very well because I had to do a school project over the winter and one of the options was to do it on an England cricket tour. I remember cutting lots of pictures of the action out of various newspapers and writing horrendously over-inclusive match reports on even the most inconsequential tour games. I pity the teacher who had to mark it. I had a chapter for each Test - one of those ended up being about the Jackman affair instead, and that's probably my main memory of the tour. The death of Ken Barrington was also a big story, although I doubt I fully appreciated the impact on the England players.

In the Tests that were actually played, Colin Croft blew England away, wrecking the nascent Test career of Bill Athey in particular. I also remember Botham (still England captain on that tour) holing out off the bowling of Viv Richards, ffs, when he should have been blocking for a draw, to general exasperation and castigation. Roland Butcher played a couple of Tests - it had been feared that he would be viewed as a traitor by the Caribbean crowds; in fact he was cheered to the rafters, but that didn't translate into him breaking through as a Test batsman. AFAIR the only England player who had a good tour was Gooch, who got a lot of runs and gave notice that he was becoming a world-class player of pace. Because I was scouring the papers for good pics to use, I discovered that the Daily Telegraph had a particular photo of him that they would recycle every time he did well.

On the '94 tour I was in my first year as a junior doctor and watched some of it between marathon stints on the wards. I remember one of my Indian colleagues telling me that England were 40-8 at stumps in a Test they'd looked like they might win - I thought he was winding me up. Also remember Lara's 375 and Alec Stewart scoring a hundred in each innings.

kalva44 - 05 Jan 2019 23:47:02 (#9 of 1222)

Spiraling, you got to do a school project on an England tour? Wow! Do you still have it?I’ve actually told a few people recently that Bumrah reminds me a bit of Colin Croft.. the angle of delivery and the awkwardness of facing him.Think Gower had a good tour as well.Regrettably Botham was very much a sitting duck when it came to the West Ihdies which is in total contrast to his 3 great all rounder rivals who have very good records against them.In retrospect, England did well to only lose 0-1 and 0-2 to WI in 1980 and 81 as I believe that WI team was actually better to the team in 1984.

spirali - 06 Jan 2019 00:47:33 (#10 of 1222)

Do you still have it?

No, it went the way of all things many years ago. I haven't thought about it for decades.. would be quite interesting to look at it again, but there it is.

One thing I remember from the tour games was that the Barbados team had Greenidge and Haynes opening the batting, and a bowling attack of Marshall, Garner, Wayne Daniel and Sylvester Clarke. Strongest domestic side ever?

kalva44 - 06 Jan 2019 01:27:25 (#11 of 1222)

Barbados were a scary team...I recall reading somewhere that Viv averaged in the 20s vs them

LordofMisrule - 06 Jan 2019 16:06:56 (#12 of 1222)

If anybody wants to view the latest incarnation of the Barbados team, Windies Cricket are live streaming first-class matches on Youtube:

ChankNolen - 07 Jan 2019 19:33:45 (#13 of 1222)

'AFAIR the only England player who had a good tour was Gooch'

Gower, Boycott and Willey also had good series with the bat, each scored a century and averaged over 40 (Gower over 50 in fact). It was the bowling that was poor.

Boycott's tour book, In The Fast Lane, is a good read.

ChankNolen - 07 Jan 2019 19:38:45 (#14 of 1222)

The tour I choose to remember was the 85/86 trip when we lost 5-0 and were lucky to get nil. England had won the Ashes the previous summer and naively I thought might be more competitive than they had been during the 4-0 thrashing in England in 1984. In fact we looked reasonably competitive in the ODIs that preceded the Tests, but when the real stuff started it turned out we were hopelessly outgunned. The excuses were flying thick and fast and varied from the possibly legitimate (Patrick Patterson bowling from above the sightscreen in Jamaica) to the more dubious (the claim that black people were just naturally more athletic and it was this and not our boys' beer and pies diet that made them superior to when it came to fast bowling).

barkis - 07 Jan 2019 20:10:46 (#15 of 1222)

The series under Gooch's captaincy when we won a test against the Windies for the first time in many years, and might possibly have won the series if not for rain in Trinidad.

In the test we won (Jamaica?) it started off business as usual with Greenidge and Haynes scoring effortlessly till one played the ball to the boundary where Devon Malcolm fumbled it so they went for a second, and Malcolm recovered quickly and ran out Greenidge.

spirali - 07 Jan 2019 21:15:00 (#16 of 1222)

Gower, Boycott and Willey also had good series with the bat, each scored a century and averaged over 40 (Gower over 50 in fact). It was the bowling that was poor.

Yeah, I just looked through the scorecards. I'd completely forgotten that Willey got a hundred. It did occur to me after I'd posted that Gower and Boycott probably did quite well, but my main Boycs-related memory from that tour is of him being bowled for a duck by the final ball of Holding's famous unplayable superfast over... the consensus was that he'd already done pretty well to survive the first 5 balls.

The batting did however get largely blown away in the first 2 Tests, which were the ones WI won. Gooch got one of his 2 hundreds in a losing cause, but all the other English centuries were in the last two Tests, which were drawn.

Looking at the series averages, Botham was actually England's leading wicket-taker, with 15 at 32 apiece. Meanwhile Croft took 24 and Holding 17, both at 18.

barkis - 07 Jan 2019 21:18:47 (#17 of 1222)

Boycott reckoned that Croft got away with bowling from wide of the return crease.

spirali - 07 Jan 2019 21:19:39 (#18 of 1222)

This thread reminds me of a TMS feature called 'To The Islands in the Sun', which was a series of documentaries about England tours of the Caribbean, broadcast during the lunch breaks on (I think) the 97-98 tour. They were excellent; I wonder if they're still available anywhere. Googling didn't turn anything up.

DesEsseintes - 07 Jan 2019 23:41:20 (#19 of 1222)

I have a feeling that was Peter Baxter's work. He would be the one to ask about it anyway.

ChankNolen - 10 Jan 2019 13:19:06 (#20 of 1222)

'Boycott reckoned that Croft got away with bowling from wide of the return crease'

His book is full of the usual excuses for his failures but the fact is that he did figure out a technique for staying in against the WI quicks and accumulating runs by riding the short ball down to fine leg, to the point where Gooch enlisted him to coach the tour party in 93-94, as noted in Atherton and Hussain's biographies.

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