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Started by uranrising on Apr 26, 2018 6:28:11 PM
"We're doomed"

"We’re doomed,” says Mayer Hillman with such a beaming smile that it takes a moment for the words to sink in. “The outcome is death, and it’s the end of most life on the planet because we’re so dependent on the burning of fossil fuels. There are no means of reversing the process which is melting the polar ice caps. And very few appear to be prepared to say so.”

(Continued in first post)

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uranrising - 26 Apr 2018 18:29:27 (#1 of 234)

From Malthus to the Millennium Bug, apocalyptic thinking has a poor track record. But when it issues from Hillman, it may be worth paying attention. Over nearly 60 years, his research has used factual data to challenge policymakers’ conventional wisdom. In 1972, he criticised out-of-town shopping centres more than 20 years before the government changed planning rules to stop their spread. In 1980, he recommended halting the closure of branch line railways – only now are some closed lines reopening. In 1984, he proposed energy ratings for houses – finally adopted as government policy in 2007. And, more than 40 years ago, he presciently challenged society’s pursuit of economic growth."

from https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/2
6/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention?CMP=share_btn_fb


which is worth reading.

wickeltisch - 26 Apr 2018 18:48:07 (#2 of 234)

I'm old enough to remember the Club of Rome and their predictions fossil fuels would run out by the 1990s. It didn't happen. The older I get the more optimistic I am that if there are problems science will find a solution.

today it’s virtually unthinkable that a seven-year-old would walk to school without an adult.

That is a very British problem, I think. Where I live I see lots of school children walking to school along busy roads, not on their own but in groups not accompanied by an adult.

virgil5 - 26 Apr 2018 19:01:44 (#3 of 234)

Doom always seems to be promised, only to turn out to be just beyond our reach.

Why can't we for once just get it over with?

WibbleAgain - 26 Apr 2018 19:04:30 (#4 of 234)

Indeed we're doomed. Every single one of us is going to die. In due course. There is no exception.

wickeltisch - 26 Apr 2018 19:08:02 (#5 of 234)

Only the doom-mongers are not talking about individual deaths but the general death of most life on earth in a short period.

FestinaLente - 26 Apr 2018 20:04:08 (#6 of 234)

That is a very British problem, I think.

US as well. It got so bad what with all the pearl-clutching that laws were passed, and now the state of Utah just DE-criminalized free range parenting. (Do you believe that's the name for allowing your children to be children? No wonder we're doomed.)

HouseOfLametta - 26 Apr 2018 20:06:31 (#7 of 234)

In the US you get killed at school, not on the way.

barkis - 26 Apr 2018 20:21:43 (#8 of 234)

#2

Global warming is different from resources running out

a) because we don't know what resources may be undiscovered but we do know we have only one atmosphere.

b) because the free market is good at finding new resources and bad at preventing environmental damage.

invicta - 26 Apr 2018 20:30:31 (#9 of 234)

The older I get the more optimistic I am that if there are problems science will find a solution.

The population of the world is doubling every 50 years and there are approximately 125 years of fuels (of all kinds) left. Science had best get started.

WibbleAgain - 26 Apr 2018 20:33:08 (#10 of 234)

There'll be wars and massive deaths. Problem solved.

machiavelli - 26 Apr 2018 20:33:36 (#11 of 234)

I think the last chance saloon was the 80s and 90s. I think we're in for some shit if we stop burning stuff and cork all the cows now.

FestinaLente - 26 Apr 2018 20:40:20 (#12 of 234)

You're right about the turning point being 20 years ago. There is nothing WE can do that will make a blind bit of difference.

moto748 - 26 Apr 2018 20:40:27 (#13 of 234)

What I don't get is that when oil really starts running out, where do we get plastics, synthetic lubricants, etc? Surely most of these are partially oil or oil-derivative based? In other words, won't we be completely fucked? Or could we get by with cellulose-based from grasses or some sort? Would require a lot of farming, though.

WibbleAgain - 26 Apr 2018 20:41:30 (#14 of 234)

We'll get plastic from recycling the gazillions tons of plastic in oceans. There'll be a new industry recovering it all. Universities will offer course in marine plastic recovery engineering and strategic blah blah blah.

WibbleAgain - 26 Apr 2018 20:43:55 (#15 of 234)

With these blighters:

http://notthetalk.com/discussion/list/43898?start=
5

WibbleAgain - 26 Apr 2018 20:50:30 (#16 of 234)

So we're all still going to boringly die of boring old age, disease, murders, wars, suicides and accidents. Not exciting apocalyptic fireworks or fearsome End Time Armageddon shootouts/whatnots.

wickeltisch - 27 Apr 2018 07:51:15 (#17 of 234)

#8,9

Iirc the Club of Rome also discussed global warning and saw overpopulation as a main problem of the future. They predicted about 30 years of fuels left, but that was before the North Sea oil fields were discovered, and there was no talk about alternative energies (wind, sun power).

wickeltisch - 27 Apr 2018 08:08:25 (#18 of 234)

Btw, I don't want to make light of environmental problems but what I think is different to former centuries is that now problems are recognised, and there's a chance that solutions are searched. In former times people for example ate from lead glazed plates, drank water from leaden pipes, had open peat and coal fires in their houses,threw waste into rivers, and did many more dangerous things without a general feeling these weren't wise things.

Anchorman - 27 Apr 2018 11:55:52 (#19 of 234)

There was an article in The Times recently confirming my opinion that most people have a very false(negative) view of what's going on the world.

It's understandable given the continuous diet of negative news we have in the press and TV news.

There's maybe one good bit of news for every 20 articles telling us the world is going to hell in a hand cart.

The article in The Times reported on a study where people were asled lots of questions asked about the statre of the world. Almost everyone got them wrong in a very negative way.

I've often linked to various items showing that for the most part(on average) things are gerting better for most people in the world in terms of better health,wealth, longevity etc but the usual response is to ignore it or for people to give examples of shit happening.

That response s completely misses the point. I'm not saying shit isn't happening,what I am saying,and it is a fact , is that more people are healthier,wealthier, longer lived etc than ever before and this is happening in the vast majority of counties in the world

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31559373@N00/albums/
72157650527486760

SheikYerbouti - 27 Apr 2018 12:02:45 (#20 of 234)

What that has to do with climate change and the thread header is a very real question and one that old Ranchs will no doubt answer in due course.

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