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Started by TheVoiceOfReason on Oct 4, 2018 7:14:16 AM
WHITE CHRISTMAS: Dutch fury as Zwarte Piet will no longer be black

The Dutch public broadcaster has announced that it will change the appearance of the traditional Christmas character Black Pete, whose blackface outfit sparks annual controversy. NTR said the character of Zwarte Piet – the helper of Saint Nicholas, or Sinterklaas as he is known in Dutch – would this year only have SOOT SMUDGES on his face.

Black Pete’s character is usually performed by an adult with a blacked-up face, wearing an afro wig, earrings, gaudy costume and red lips – a costume that has increasingly come under fire for being a racist stereotype.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/03/dutc
h-christmas-character-black-pete-to-shed-blackface-for-tv

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invicta - 04 Oct 2018 07:15:47 (#1 of 52)

I'm finding it hard to care, to be honest.

browserbutton - 04 Oct 2018 07:18:51 (#2 of 52)

Just like Christmas, the Zwarte Piet thread gets earlier by the year.

https://justthetalk.com/uknews/25668/is_zwarte_pie
t_racism_/1

HorstVogel - 04 Oct 2018 07:20:09 (#3 of 52)

browser, just like banning Christmass

browserbutton - 04 Oct 2018 07:24:13 (#4 of 52)

Or calling it Winterval, to annoy traditionalists.

BBBilly - 04 Oct 2018 07:27:34 (#5 of 52)

You can't even sing about Rudolph's shiny nose any more - it's body shaming.

GyratingTrampoline - 04 Oct 2018 07:27:36 (#6 of 52)

If its the blacking up that causes offence, why not just have the character played by an actual black person?

Delighted_User - 04 Oct 2018 07:57:57 (#7 of 52)

It isn't just the blacking up. It's the fact that the character is supposed to be stupid, and speaks in funny Dutch. And the slave-master relationship seems a teeny-weeny bit racist as well.

Arjuna - 04 Oct 2018 08:03:25 (#8 of 52)

It's the fact that the character is supposed to be stupid, and speaks in funny Dutch

Have him played by Steve MccLaren

Agaliarept - 04 Oct 2018 08:58:14 (#9 of 52)

You never hear why a particular tradition must be held onto at all costs while other traditions fall by the wayside.

What about creating some new traditions for the poeple who live in Holland now?

invicta - 04 Oct 2018 08:59:11 (#10 of 52)

Because nobody can agree on anything, any more.

HorstVogel - 04 Oct 2018 09:00:25 (#11 of 52)

#9 like halloween american style?

carterbrandon - 06 Oct 2018 12:15:12 (#12 of 52)

We should applaud this by doing jazz hands.

HorstVogel - 06 Oct 2018 19:48:27 (#13 of 52)

I wasn't sure - had to look it up



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_hands

carterbrandon - 07 Oct 2018 15:29:51 (#14 of 52)

It's in the news. Manchester University Students Union. The poor dears are too young to realise the Al Jolson problem with their woke solution.

freedutchman - 01 Nov 2018 09:56:07 (#15 of 52)

<irony button on>

It's just a matter of time before Santa Claus, Halloween (kids love it) and Oktoberfest are more popular than "Sinterklaas & Zwarte Piet" in my little country.

Go horrorclowns, go!

PS. Never trusted the fake catholic bishop, as a kid I had to sit on his lap....bbbbrrrrrr!

;-)

SheikYerbouti - 01 Nov 2018 10:52:45 (#16 of 52)

What about creating some new traditions for the poeple who live in Holland now?

Yeah man. We can invade and impose our new traditions on those pesky Hollanders. It's for the best.

Agaliarept - 01 Nov 2018 11:01:31 (#17 of 52)

We can invade and impose our new traditions on those pesky Hollanders. It's for the best.

Err, I assumed you would have enough smarts to know that rhetorical questions was aimed at the Dutch.

SheikYerbouti - 01 Nov 2018 11:04:39 (#18 of 52)

They ain't here, dude.

Agaliarept - 01 Nov 2018 11:08:12 (#19 of 52)

They ain't here, dude.

Now you're just being silly. You get that the question was rhetorical?

popperhead - 01 Nov 2018 11:10:58 (#20 of 52)

This is surprisingly more nuanced than one might think. My personal experience on seeing Zwarte Piet for the first time was genuine disbelief (it even broke through the fug). How could a woke (yes I'm using that word - hell it's become common and is useful shorthand as much as I may instinctively dislike it) country like The Netherlands still have such an obviously rascist tradiition!

However, according to a 2013 survey, upwards of 90% of the Dutch public do not perceive Zwarte Piet to be a racist character or associate him with slavery and are opposed to altering the character's appearance. This correlates to a 2015 study among Dutch children aged 3–7 which showed that they perceive Zwarte Piet to be a fantastical clownish figure rather than a black person.

As much as I'm in favour of listening to the genuinely offended, I am wary of the views of right on people undercutting national traditions where no offence is actually felt.

However, the number of Dutch people who are willing to change certain details of the character (for example his lips and hair) is reported to be growing.

This seems a sensible approach, which would also undercut the "liberals want to cancel christmas" types.

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