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Started by Arjuna on Apr 3, 2020 9:26:55 AM
Hungary and the EU

Sophie in’t Veld, a Dutch liberal MEP, who chairs the European parliament’s rule of law group, said: “Viktor Orbán has completed his project of killing democracy and the rule of law in Hungary. Clearly, the actions of the Hungarian government are incompatible with EU membership.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/hung
ary-emergency-law-incompatible-with-being-in-eu-say-meps-group-viktor-orban


Impossible to disagree, so what happens now?

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Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 12:38:34 (#1 of 30)

“It’s of utmost importance that emergency measures are not at the expense of our fundamental principles and values,” Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, said in a statement that made no mention of Mr. Orban or Hungary

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/world/europe/hu
ngary-viktor-orban-eu.html

TheValkyrie - 03 Apr 2020 13:54:41 (#2 of 30)

Wait until the crisis passes. Request he gives up his new powers. If he refuses eject them from the EU.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 14:06:03 (#3 of 30)

Seems to be the policy, although I fear that delay will only embolden him.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 14:14:01 (#4 of 30)

Some decent ideas here, I think the crucial matter is to send a message not only to Orban but also to the opposition in Hungary so they don't feel they have been abandoned.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hungary-orban-coronavirus-europe-eu-fidesz-a9441946.html?amp

Hilary - 03 Apr 2020 15:22:49 (#5 of 30)

Am I right in thinking that Hungary cannot be expelled from the EU without Poland's agreement?

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 15:25:36 (#6 of 30)

I have no idea how nations are expelled but would suspect that a unanimous verdict would be required.

Hilary - 03 Apr 2020 15:32:19 (#7 of 30)

Well, not literally unanimous, presumably.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 15:37:31 (#8 of 30)

ah yes, logical problem there.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 15:40:41 (#9 of 30)

here we go

Article 7 of the Treaty on European Union is a procedure in the treaties of the European Union (EU) to suspend certain rights from a member state. While rights can be suspended, there is no mechanism to expel a member

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_7_of_the_T
reaty_on_European_Union

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 15:43:17 (#10 of 30)

The European Council can vote to suspend any rights of membership, such as voting and representation as outlined above. Identifying the breach requires unanimity (excluding the state concerned),

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 15:44:31 (#11 of 30)

So a state cannot be expelled but the suspension could mean that it would either have to accept some harsh conditions or leave. If all other states did agree then Hungary could effectively be shoved out.

Hilary - 03 Apr 2020 15:48:15 (#12 of 30)

Right, so the same applies to suspension of rights: Hungary can only have its rights suspended if Poland agrees.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 15:54:11 (#13 of 30)

Yes, thats the way I read article 7, not sure what other routes there may be to apply sanctions.

This has been coming for a while, now we are well beyond the "Clear Risk of Serious Breach" of EU values stage.

Hilary - 03 Apr 2020 15:55:08 (#14 of 30)

Which Poland is unlikely to do since they know they would be next in line.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 15:56:18 (#15 of 30)

Orban has shat all over the EU's founding values and wiped his arse with the treaty.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 16:00:19 (#16 of 30)

Justice Minister Judit Varga, understanding that the statement is about the Orbán government, said on Thursday that Hungary “agreed fully” with the statement’s call to “uphold the fundamental values of freedom, democracy, the rule of law, and fundamental rights.”

https://hungarytoday.hu/statement-criticizing-orban-hungary-troll-diplomacy/

The EU's statement was so pathetic that Hungary can just take the piss

AlanII - 03 Apr 2020 16:00:27 (#17 of 30)

Indeed, Poland are yet to go that far. If Orban is what the Hungarian people want, they have to be told to fuck off.

AlanII - 03 Apr 2020 16:01:26 (#18 of 30)

Looks like a typical EU holding pattern to me, Arjuna.

machiavelli - 03 Apr 2020 16:02:54 (#19 of 30)

A Polish friend tells me that his government is gearing up for mischief. Don't count on their vote against Viktor.

Arjuna - 03 Apr 2020 16:04:09 (#20 of 30)

Technically not the UK's problem any more but Bojo would be foolish to ignore it or to just try and gain capital by claiming it proves Brexit right.

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