No smilies, no avatars, no flashing gifs. Just discuss the issues of the day, from last night's telly via football to science or philosophy.
Started by Jacob_Richter on Oct 7, 2020 11:37:46 AM
Greece - court finds that neo-Nazi Golden Dawn is a criminal organisation

In a landmark verdict in Greece’s highest-profile political trial in decades, an Athens court on Wednesday found the neo-fascist party Golden Dawn guilty of running a criminal organization as it rose to prominence during the country’s financial crisis, systematically targeting migrants and left-wing critics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/world/europe/go
lden-dawn-guilty-verdict-greece.html

Previous
|
Next
|
Top
|
Bottom
Jacob_Richter - 07 Oct 2020 11:38:24 (#1 of 30)

Huge crowd celebrates:

https://twitter.com/News247gr/status/1313770006027
677696

Jacob_Richter - 07 Oct 2020 11:41:17 (#2 of 30)

Bad news for Fraser Nelson and the Speccie.

https://twitter.com/terryfuck45/status/13137829699
62725378

Jacob_Richter - 10 Oct 2020 12:57:54 (#3 of 30)

And Brendan O'Neill:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2013/10/02/the-war-on-golden-dawn-a-dark-day-for-democracy/

Shadrack22 - 10 Oct 2020 12:59:25 (#4 of 30)

Ten points

moto748 - 10 Oct 2020 13:03:24 (#5 of 30)

These Spiked people really are quite a bunch of cunts, aren't they?

mingmong - 10 Oct 2020 13:08:47 (#6 of 30)

These Spiked people really are quite a bunch of cunts, aren't they?

Putinites, basically. A nihilistic interest in power for its own sake. Intellectually hostile to notions of truth and objectivity: forming the nexus between the obscurantist element of post-modernism and the practitioners of industrial disinformation

Cunts, in other words.

Tinymcsmithy - 10 Oct 2020 13:19:55 (#7 of 30)

Ten points



Is anti fascism too left wing now?

Jacob_Richter - 10 Oct 2020 13:25:06 (#8 of 30)

Heh - you're welcome to those points, fella.

Tinymcsmithy - 10 Oct 2020 13:32:01 (#9 of 30)

Have they been sentenced yet?

Hilary - 10 Oct 2020 14:05:50 (#10 of 30)

mingmong

I am perplexed at the intensity of the hostility displayed towards Spiked, which seems to rival and even outdo that shown to Golden Dawn itself. I could only suppose that the Brendan O'Neill piece linked to must have said nice, or at the very least neutral, things about Golden Dawn, so I looked at it. And read:

Golden Dawn is a profoundly unpleasant organisation. Virulently racist, anti-Semitic, allergic to the ideals of free speech and free movement, and supported by people who are quite happy to use violence against those they hate, especially immigrants, it makes our own British National Party look like a chapter of the Women’s Institute in comparison.

I thus remain perplexed at the intensity of the hostility shown towards Spiked, since my best guess as explaining it has, as above, been pretty comprehensively refuted. Can you explain it, at all?

Tinymcsmithy - 10 Oct 2020 14:12:09 (#11 of 30)

Mingmongn please don’t waste time explaining anything to this fool. This thread could be interesting, if our stays on topic.

mingmong - 10 Oct 2020 14:27:40 (#12 of 30)

Hillers - my dislike of Spiked goes back a long way, and is not specifically connected with this article. I think I've already said enough in #6 to give you some idea of where the animosity comes from

Tiny - Hilary isn't a fool. Although he and I disagree on many things, we are still able to exchange views respectfully - an increasingly rare thing on the social medias these days. But I don't wish to derail, so won't say any more on this thread as I don't know that much about the Golden Dawn in Greece

Hilary - 10 Oct 2020 15:46:01 (#13 of 30)

I think I've already said enough in #6 to give you some idea of where the animosity comes from

Well, not really, since it's all very abstract, though 'Putinists', 'nihilists', 'hostile to notions of truth and objectivity' does sound pretty bad. But actually such epithets seem much more suited to the various woke cults (themselves inspired by postmodernism and/or critical [race] theory) which Spiked spends a lot of its time and energy attacking than to Spiked itself. Are you sure you have identified your enemy correctly? Have I missed something?

Jacob_Richter - 10 Oct 2020 15:53:30 (#14 of 30)

woke cults

Yeah. Right.

Jacob_Richter - 10 Oct 2020 16:05:21 (#15 of 30)

O'Neill in Spiked says, directly after the sentences quoted by Hilary that:

Yet that doesn’t mean we should give a nod to, far less cheer, the Greek state’s incarceration of GD’s leaders and members of parliament, who were democratically elected. Any police sweep on elected politicians should make those of us who call ourselves democrats anxious; that Greece’s military-style assault on GD hasn’t is very worrying.

Let's remember what GD was convicted of:

judges ruled the neo-fascist Golden Dawn was a criminal organisation in disguise.

the far-right group guilty of operating a gang of hit squads bent on eliminating perceived enemies.

The verdict was met with widespread relief. Magda Fyssa, whose son Pavlos Fyssas, an anti-fascist rapper, was stabbed to death by a senior party operative, and who attended almost every court session over the past five and half years, screamed with emotion. “Pavlos did it! My son,” she wailed outside the courtroom.

Golden Dawn stood broadly accused of targeting immigrants, communist trade unionists, anti-fascists, leftists and gay people, culminating in the fatal stabbing of Fyssas,

and

The central Board of Jewish Communities in Greece (Kise) said the “historic verdict ... delegitimises the neo-Nazi organisations and at the same time fortifies democracy in the country”.

But it said this was no time “to let our guard down”. A Jewish cemetery in Athens was vandalised in an attack attributed to the extremists on Monday and its walls daubed with slogans used by the Third Reich.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/07/gold
en-dawn-leader-and-ex-mps-found-guilty-in-landmark-trial


None of this is new. All of this was known years ago when Spiked and The Spectator published their apologetics.

Hilary himself is just a heart beat away from fascism nowadays. His fixation with 'wokeness' - that is those opposed to racism, fascism, homophobia, sexism etc - has brought him to this: ignoring fascist murder squads, defending those who would make excuses and defend the organisation organising those murder squads, while squealing about 'woke cults'. Ming is right, Hilary is no fool....but he is extremely nasty.

BasilSeal - 10 Oct 2020 16:12:28 (#16 of 30)

I thus remain perplexed at the intensity of the hostility shown towards Spiked, since my best guess as explaining it has, as above, been pretty comprehensively refuted. Can you explain it, at all?



yes, they're a bunch of cunts. HTH

Hilary - 10 Oct 2020 16:22:30 (#17 of 30)

Once again I have to conclude that there is nothing that one set of progressives detests more than another set of progressives with a just slightly alternative analysis. The rage and contempt is well-nigh incandescent. Their well-advertised hostility to centrists and conservatives is as weak as water in comparison; it cannot hold a candle to their mutual hatred.

Long may it remain so.

Jacob_Richter - 10 Oct 2020 16:24:47 (#18 of 30)

Spiked are progressives? On which planet?

mingmong - 10 Oct 2020 16:41:29 (#19 of 30)

Spiked, to the extent that they actually mean a word they say, usually position themselves on the libertarian far right. However, they also have a habit of finding themselves in curious agreement with authoritarian, hard-right or nationalist positions on questions such as gender or immigration

Hilary - 10 Oct 2020 17:45:59 (#20 of 30)

That doesn't match my experience of them at all. They are much more like the Labour Party as it was in the 1960s, foregrounding the economic interests of working class people, sceptical of elite narratives (and btw expressly republican), while also approving social reforms of a liberal nature (homosexuality, womens' issues etc). Maybe their acknowledgement that most of the country - but perhaps particularly those in lower-income groups - still have a strong national identity, and that this is by no means automatically a bad thing, as such an identity cuts across potential class, religious and racial divisions - an acknowledgement btw which would have been unremarkable in the 1960s Labour Party - is what rankles, and leads to the (at once preposterous and incoherent) characterisation of them as 'libertarian' and/or 'far-right'.

In short, they are anti-Tory, but no less (and this may be the real source of the animus from their fellows on the establishment left) 'anti-Whig'.

Previous
|
Next
|
Top
|
Bottom
Check Subscriptions
|
Home » Europe