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Started by Jacob_Richter on May 5, 2021 9:44:43 AM
2,000 refugee deaths linked to illegal EU pushbacks

EU member states have used illegal operations to push back at least 40,000 asylum seekers from Europe’s borders during the pandemic, linked to the death of more than 2,000 people, the Guardian can reveal.

Jacob_Richter - 05 May 2021 09:45:01 (#1 of 33)

Get yer 10 pointe 'ere.

Jacob_Richter - 05 May 2021 09:46:46 (#2 of 33)

Grim stories from the 'saintly' EU.

tasselhoff - 05 May 2021 11:28:04 (#3 of 33)

It's pretty horrific.

TigerPaws - 25 Nov 2021 07:54:58 (#4 of 33)

I cannot understand how a parent could take a child on a dingy knowing it might sink.

GyratingTrampoline - 25 Nov 2021 08:08:23 (#5 of 33)

Because they consider it to be the most likely way for their child to have a future?

Pinkgum - 25 Nov 2021 08:37:21 (#6 of 33)

Absolute desperation for them to have a chance of a better life - one with education, healthcare and opportunities.

Ginmonkey - 25 Nov 2021 08:40:32 (#7 of 33)

Indeed. They are also exploited and lied to by people smugglers.

People also have little understanding kowledge of the English Channel and just how dangerous it is. If you are used to the Med, which is a lot stiller and more shallow the 22 mile stretch from Calais to Dover looks invitingly easy to cross. However it can be deadly, especially in winter.

TigerPaws - 28 Nov 2021 07:56:49 (#8 of 33)

I'm wondering the extent to which some migrants are pressurised by family members to try their luck.

Who provides the money for the smugglers, the smart phones -to keep in touch with family- food, clothing, identity documents, medicines, nappies,first aid, etc?

Big business.

TigerPaws - 29 Nov 2021 07:50:29 (#9 of 33)

As for not knowing about the dangers of the channel many aspiring émigrés have smart phones with extensive information about tides, shipping and so on.

IMO nothing justifies putting a child in an overcrowded dingy -unless the conditions become as dire as during the 1940s.

mingmong - 29 Nov 2021 08:40:29 (#10 of 33)

This will continue as long as North Africa and the Middle East remains impoverished by war and corruption.

The only way of ending it is with an overhaul and reconstitution of civic life in this region (grassroots upwards), combined with a huge injection of cash on the scale of the Marshall Plan. The Arab Spring of 2011 would have offered an opportunity for this.

Pinkgum - 29 Nov 2021 09:50:15 (#11 of 33)

Also it's going to get worse, disaster and weather driven migration, refugees of climate change.

solomongursky - 29 Nov 2021 10:28:20 (#12 of 33)

What sort of phones they have is the real issue.

col2001 - 29 Nov 2021 10:38:45 (#13 of 33)

The Arab Spring of 2011 would have offered an opportunity for this.

We see that as a lost opportunity. Various parties, including western leaders, clearly do not.

moto748 - 29 Nov 2021 15:16:32 (#14 of 33)

What sort of phones they have is the real issue.

Maybe not, but nevertheless I don't disagree with TP's broad point; that it seems hard to imagine most of these refugees aren't aware of the dangers of crossing one of the world's busiest shipping lanes in midwinter in a dinghy.

GyratingTrampoline - 29 Nov 2021 15:21:23 (#15 of 33)

My guess is that they're aware that there is a significant chance of death and also a significant chance of being able to start a new life in the UK and they choose to take a calculated risk because this seems to them a better option than any of the alternatives

tasselhoff - 29 Nov 2021 16:58:08 (#16 of 33)

I saw a documentary in France last night. One bloke had a weather app to check the conditions for the journey. He ended up losing his 9000€ to the mafias organising the crossings (after a first attempt failed).

Ginmonkey - 29 Nov 2021 17:02:13 (#17 of 33)

It is more complex than tides and bad weather though. The English Channel is one of the world's busiest shipping lanes. Those little dingys are horrifically vulnerable.

tasselhoff - 29 Nov 2021 17:09:21 (#18 of 33)

Sure, but that's basically a constant. The fierce weather isn't.

Ginmonkey - 29 Nov 2021 17:32:06 (#19 of 33)


machiavelli - 29 Nov 2021 17:57:35 (#20 of 33)

Funny how a thread on EU pushback morphs into one about the English Channel.

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