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Started by virgil5 on May 11, 2018 11:09:10 AM
Military Tactics Thread

The problem with the UK is: it's given up the military prowess that came with establishing a world empire, and become a wishy washy poodle pushed into unwise ventures like the Bush led Iraq fiasco.

Don't cringe from your past. Embrace it and go beyond your loathing to a new pride in your armed forces, and a new assertiveness on the world stage.

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virgil5 - 11 May 2018 11:10:19 (#1 of 83)

Let's start with "Defensive Warfare".

Example from the US Civil War:

<Longstreet to Lee at Gettysburg> [sic} "If Meade is out there tomorrow, it's because he WANTS us to attack him."

<Lee> "I will not give up the field. If he is there, I will attack him."

To disasterous results, in "Pickett's Charge".

Longstreet was right: a good defensive strategy requires that you pick good defensive ground and let the enemy attack you, using his own action against him, which is what Meade did, to Lee's defeat.

Brunothecat - 11 May 2018 11:17:54 (#2 of 83)

a new assertiveness on the world stage.

Recolonise America, that sort of thing? Yes well, I suppose this "independence" lark looks all fine and dandy until a crazed loon becomes president. Thought better of it now, eh?

thisonehasalittlehat - 11 May 2018 11:18:43 (#3 of 83)

Don't cringe from your past. Embrace it and go beyond your loathing to a new pride in your armed forces, and a new assertiveness on the world stage.

You mean lets take off and nuke them from orbit?

Gotout - 11 May 2018 11:22:28 (#4 of 83)

pushed into unwise ventures like the Bush led Iraq fiasco.

It was ever so. History has many examples of politicians behaving like armchair warriors and sending our troops into unwinnable situations.

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 11:23:40 (#5 of 83)

Recolonize America

Missing the point. If you hadn't made the effort in Virginia and the French and Indian Wars, there would have been no English colonists to rebel and the US would be French and German with some more Spanish today.

Brunothecat - 11 May 2018 11:27:43 (#6 of 83)

Probably be part of the EU as well. Trumpers could be a commissioner or something.

rgtstoppedcounting - 11 May 2018 11:31:58 (#7 of 83)

The problem with the UK is...

Nothing about military tactics in there..?

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 11:35:07 (#8 of 83)

The wheels of history grind slowly.

The 'troubled' relationship between the US and UK can be seen more as an ongoing class struggle in the nature of US/UK society that goes back to your civil war and Cromwell.

More a dispute about who is better to defend the civil rights and values brought into the world by Locke, Hume and the English Enlightenment, then some triumph of the masses over the upper class.

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 11:44:40 (#9 of 83)

Another example of "Defensive Warfare":

Iran today.

Iran is a fortress waiting for Israel to attack.

Israel is about to fall into the trap.

Iran is Persia and Persia has known for a long time in history how to wait for the enemy to attack before crushing them.

Afghanistan is another example. "The graveyard of empires" (that never learn)

Intowntonight - 11 May 2018 12:27:51 (#10 of 83)

Just like they did with Iraq ?

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 12:32:58 (#11 of 83)

"They" being?

Intowntonight - 11 May 2018 12:50:27 (#12 of 83)

Iran.

As I recall, it was Iran who sued for peace, after Saddam used rockets and poison gas on Iranian cities.

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 12:57:20 (#13 of 83)

Iran

Indeed. Iran fought a long bitter war with Iraq (where the US tried to support Saddam), eventually wearing down Saddam and gaining influence with the Shiites there, that, thanks to the blundering of Bush and Bremer, Iran was able to capitalize on with the Shiite support it has in Iraq today.

Israel evidently hopes Trump will attack Iran, but Bibi seems to be running out of time or something, because he's now having to do it himself.

Poor old Bibi.

Intowntonight - 11 May 2018 13:04:00 (#14 of 83)

Israel evidently hopes Trump will attack Iran, but Bibi seems to be running out of time or something, because he's now having to do it himself.

Poor old Bibi.



Nice to know you have a crystal ball.

Well isn't it just like the Israelis - getting other people to fight their wars:

Still trying to figure out Syria. Who did the Israelis get to fight their war ?

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 13:07:25 (#15 of 83)

It doesn't take a crystal ball to see an aging Bibi needing to get re-elected.

Intowntonight - 11 May 2018 13:08:09 (#16 of 83)

You may be right - but virgil, its not for this thread

brooklyn - 11 May 2018 13:09:10 (#17 of 83)

there are only two maxims you must follow, to be the next Napoleon.

1. the best defense is a good offense.

2. the best offense is a good defense.

and if it doesn't work in an attack on Russia, you can always get a job coaching in the National Football League.

<<You mean lets take off and nuke them from orbit?>>

don't be daft. that's our job.

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 13:12:16 (#18 of 83)

I bring up Iran (knowing the possible I/P quagmire) because military tactics are military tactics. Political considerations are there

Jeff Davis certainly wanted Lee to win big and force Abe Lincoln to the bargaining table

but in the end the battle is won on the ground by "them that gets there the firstest with the mostest" as Nathan Bedford Forrest said.

Intowntonight - 11 May 2018 13:20:40 (#19 of 83)

Well its always helpful to get others to fight your war for you: I would have thought Assad was the obvious beneficiary of that maxim.

Some wars cant help but be lengthy: the war on the Eastern Front in WW2 is an example: two ruthless regimes pitted against each other over 2000 miles of territory: it was a mutual meat-grinder - its who had the biggest teeth: the biggest man-power resources and the most determination.

virgil5 - 11 May 2018 13:29:26 (#20 of 83)

Israel obviously employs BOTH strategies: it will get as much support as it can indirectly, and if that doesn't seem to be working, it will have to attack.

Israel only has so much war fighting resource. It's wise of them to try and get back up.

But political bluster can bring more action that has to be dealt with than there are resources to deal with it.

This is where politicians running wars come to grief and widows and orphans increase.

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