No smilies, no avatars, no flashing gifs. Just discuss the issues of the day, from last night's telly via football to science or philosophy.
Started by Tadagee on Jun 26, 2019 10:29:34 PM
British Civil Wars: which side are you? Any why?

The Anarchy: Stephen or Matilda?

The Wars of the Roses: York or Lancaster?

The Civil War: Royalist or Parliamentarian?

TRaney - 27 Jun 2019 08:28:50 (#21 of 129)

Henry VIII was not a Protestant, least never described himself in those terms, Anglo Catholic was probably a better description.

Nobody called themselves Protestant at the time. It started as a pejorative, I can't remember if it first became current just before or after his death.

He certainly fancied himself a theologian, but cut his cloth according to his political needs. His was a kind of Trumpian view that rites and beliefs should be whatever he said they were. Edward was more doctrinaire, but even Elizabeth retained random bits of popery.

TRaney - 27 Jun 2019 08:32:34 (#22 of 129)

The second allowed Protestants to actively recruit within the nation.

In the sense that they could point out discrepancies between scripture and practice, perhaps. One of the interesting points about protestant promotion of vernacular bibles is that the intention wasn't to encourage people to read and come to their own conclusions but rather a conviction that if they read it they would agree with the protestant interpretation.

The Reformation is probably the historical event I've changed my views on the most.

TinyMcSmith - 27 Jun 2019 08:51:36 (#23 of 129)

Royalist versus Parliament is far too simplistic when discussing that period of history. Especially when we realise it’s importance for defining how English society functions today.

My favourite era. Well, apart from Arsenal’s double winning era.

TheExcession - 27 Jun 2019 08:59:36 (#24 of 129)

Aftermath of the English Civil War in a nutshell

Roundheads: We've got rid of an oppressive and incompetent king!

People: Hooray!

Roundheads: Oh, and we've also cancelled Christmas and fun in general

People: Oh... can we have the king back please?

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 09:55:53 (#25 of 129)

Christmas was actually cancelled before the King was beheaded.

The war was never actually fought to get rid of the King, there were few Republicans on the Parliament side until after the second war. It was fought in defence of the gains Parliament had made in 1641 that were the beginnings of a constitutional monarchy. It was only when the Independents in Parliament decided he was incapable of playing that sort of role that they moved against him and their rivals in Parliament.

moto748 - 27 Jun 2019 10:01:02 (#26 of 129)

even Elizabeth retained random bits of popery.

Mostly just their heads.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 12:04:57 (#27 of 129)

In the initial Wars of the Roses, it would be hard to put up an argument for Henry VI as he was clearly unsuited to be a King.

RosyLovelady - 27 Jun 2019 12:07:22 (#28 of 129)

I've always rather liked Henry VI, ever since I saw him portrayed by Terry Scully (and whatever happened to him?) in An Age of Kings in the early 1960s.

GyratingTrampoline - 27 Jun 2019 13:34:40 (#29 of 129)

Nobody called themselves Protestant at the time. It started as a pejorative, I can't remember if it first became current just before or after his death.



Damn you must be old

TRaney - 27 Jun 2019 13:35:41 (#30 of 129)

it's all the blood

breakfast - 27 Jun 2019 14:03:32 (#31 of 129)

Definitely the White Rose.

Parliamentarians, although as has been noted Oliver Cromwell was a bit of a misery guts.

Tadagee - 27 Jun 2019 14:20:14 (#32 of 129)

Puritans disapproved of having sex standing up in case it lead to dancing.

FleurDuMal - 27 Jun 2019 15:40:08 (#33 of 129)

The White Rose, obviously.

On balance, I’d side with the Royalists, as they were more fun, but Cromwell’s cancellation of Christmas has a lot to recommend it.

surferboogiewhatever - 27 Jun 2019 15:51:52 (#34 of 129)

Matilda

York, mainly because my dad's from Yorkshire, but I find several people on the Yorkist side quite interesting.

Tough one. Sellar and Yeatman said it all really - I suppose Parliamentarians in the sense that I think a republic is generally a Good Thing, but I don't think much of their methods.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 17:02:48 (#35 of 129)

Puritans weren't that miserable, it was the Presbyterians that were the real kill joys and twas they who banned Christmas in 1648, the year before Puritans took power. Strict Presbyterians in Scotland continued the Christmas humbug for hundreds of years, they might be some who are still on it now.

Although both groups were mainly about separating jollity from religious occasions not getting rid of it altogether. Its also worthy of note that Puritans allowed far more religious freedom than than the monarchy. Recusancy fines were abolished, thus church attendance was no longer complusory and it's still the only period in English history when there was no official religion.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 17:05:02 (#36 of 129)

I think I'll opt for Stephen, I like the idea of a King Steve. Also Matilda had already been an Empress and its hard to love a carpet bagger.

nac1001 - 27 Jun 2019 17:33:01 (#37 of 129)

The best named king we never had was Alfonso, son of Edward I and first in line until his death. Leaving the job to the less than wonderful Edward II.

AlanII - 27 Jun 2019 17:36:36 (#38 of 129)

The best named kings ever though were French. Louis the Fat, Charles the Bald and (though I have yet to locate him) Childeric the Sweaty.

HouseOfLametta - 27 Jun 2019 17:37:40 (#39 of 129)

John The Stupid was one of theirs.

TRaney - 27 Jun 2019 17:38:37 (#40 of 129)

Henry the fowler

Check Subscriptions
|
Home » History