No smilies, no avatars, no flashing gifs. Just discuss the issues of the day, from last night's telly via football to science or philosophy.
Started by Tadagee on Jun 26, 2019 10:29:34 PM
British Civil Wars: which side are you? Any why?

The Anarchy: Stephen or Matilda?

The Wars of the Roses: York or Lancaster?

The Civil War: Royalist or Parliamentarian?

TRaney - 27 Jun 2019 21:05:27 (#70 of 129)

Note the word 'complete'

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:14:48 (#71 of 129)

One thing I did notice about the Richard III circus was the complete absence of current royals. Henry VII dated his reign to the day before Bosworth so he could frame Richard as an usurper. Thus, it seems he is still regarded as de facto rather than a de jure King.

YorenInTheNorth - 27 Jun 2019 21:17:10 (#72 of 129)

I think Henry VII recognised Richard as legally king (to avoid legal chaos by erasing two years of Government). By declaring his reign from the day before the battle it meant everyone who fought for Richard (really aimed at the Lords/Barons) were technically guilty of high treason.

A legal axe over their heads.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:17:24 (#73 of 129)

Although Parliament passed a law in 1495 to prevent treason laws from being abused in this way again.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Act_1495

YorenInTheNorth - 27 Jun 2019 21:18:16 (#74 of 129)

Interesting. Thanks.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:19:00 (#75 of 129)

It does explain why many in Parliament wanted to crown King Oliver.

YorenInTheNorth - 27 Jun 2019 21:22:30 (#76 of 129)

Good point.

barkis - 27 Jun 2019 21:26:02 (#77 of 129)

#75

And in fact as protector he was king in all but name. He had all the ceremonial stuff. Also he appointed his eldest son to succeed him (though he may not have been compos mentis at the time).

Napoleon, the other strange idol of republicans, certainly hoped to establish a dynasty.

popstar7 - 27 Jun 2019 21:29:20 (#78 of 129)

How was Napoleon on Christmas? And dancing on Sunday?

TRaney - 27 Jun 2019 21:31:39 (#79 of 129)

He decimalised it to the 10 days of Christmas

barkis - 27 Jun 2019 21:31:52 (#80 of 129)

#78

I think it was mostly "not tonight Josephine".

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:32:51 (#81 of 129)

Napoleon brought back the Catholic Church and invited Pope Pius to his coronation just so he could watch Napoleon crown himself.

whatever you say about him, the dude had style.

YorenInTheNorth - 27 Jun 2019 21:32:54 (#82 of 129)

#78

He took hall a million on a tour of the Moscow Christmas markets in 1812.

popstar7 - 27 Jun 2019 21:35:09 (#83 of 129)

Napoleon brought back the Catholic Church

Ah, a remainer. Good lad.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:35:47 (#84 of 129)

Robespierre had abolished the Catholic Church and replaced it with The Cult of the Supreme Being

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Suprem
e_Being

popstar7 - 27 Jun 2019 21:38:22 (#85 of 129)

I got suspended from school for that.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:46:04 (#86 of 129)

And in fact as protector he was king in all but name

but what sort of King? This was the real issue that had caused the war. Parliament had wanted Charles to be a constitutional monarch and acts had been passed by parliament to that effect and sanctioned by Charles in 1641. Cromwell as Lord Protector governed in accordance with two written constitutions, the Instrument of Government (1654) and the Humble Petition and Advice (1657).

Also he appointed his eldest son to succeed him (though he may not have been compos mentis at the time).

The Humble Petition and Advice gave him the power to nominate a successor although there was never any written evidence that he selected Richard.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:47:41 (#87 of 129)

I got suspended from school for that

By some accounts, Robespierre's ceremony sounded like a school assembly. He stood there pontificating about his new cult whilst mirth and giggling broke out in the audience.

Arjuna - 27 Jun 2019 21:51:52 (#88 of 129)

In the aftermath of the French Revolution the aristocrats of Paris reacted in a similar manner to the restoration court of the Merrie Monarch. They emphasized their own style and decadance portraying the revolutionaries as dour and joyless.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incroyables_and_Me
rveilleuses

barkis - 27 Jun 2019 22:03:04 (#89 of 129)

#86

Cromwell had the Instrument of Government written after he'd got rid of the parliament he'd appointed. No English or British monarch has behaved so despotically.

Check Subscriptions
|
Home » History