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Started by HorseEasyEast on Jan 23, 2019 9:33:12 PM
Enter Bolsonaro and the coup in Venezuela

So, Brazil elects a Fascist, and the first thing they do is attempt a coup with their good ol' American pals in Venezuela.

via NBCnews

JUST IN: President Trump: "Today, I am officially recognizing the President of the Venezuelan National Assembly, Juan Guaido, as the Interim President of Venezuela."

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chacqueschirac - 24 Jan 2019 14:21:18 (#1 of 160)

Fishy as ever.

Looks like the next US instigated regime change contested by Russia and China.

brooklyn - 24 Jan 2019 14:28:43 (#2 of 160)

gentlemen, I'm not sure it's that simple. Maduro isn't Abe Lincoln. his top court neutered the opposition-friendly National Assembly. see generally

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/world/americas/
venezuela-protests-guaido-maduro.html


two excerpts:

<<Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador, Guatemala and the Organization of American States have also recognized Mr. Guaidó as the country’s leader.>>

<<The United States and many of Venezuela’s neighbors have called the president an illegitimate dictator and signaled strong support for a plan to establish a transitional government.>>

chacqueschirac - 24 Jan 2019 14:36:26 (#3 of 160)

Maduro isn't Abe Lincoln.



Nobody ever claimed that.

I claim that US advocated regime change is never ever based on the democratic credentials of the regime.

If you want to stick to analogies, Donald Trump is not George Bush but the former hardly has credentials to be less nefarious than the former.

MestangloMan - 24 Jan 2019 14:54:22 (#4 of 160)

Looks like the next US instigated regime change contested by Russia and China.

CC, have you been reading what the Ds and Rs in my country have written and said about Putin's Russia in the last 2 plus years? This might be a great campaign strategy for 2020.

Just sayin'. Haha.

Winner - 24 Jan 2019 15:21:28 (#5 of 160)

Britain, Germany, France, Canada, the US, all behind Gueido. On the other side, Vladamir Putin.

TRaney - 24 Jan 2019 15:21:58 (#6 of 160)

And Corbyn

PostmodernToss - 24 Jan 2019 15:41:52 (#7 of 160)

No doubt he’s On The Right Side Of History as usual.

brooklyn - 24 Jan 2019 22:04:37 (#8 of 160)

<<I claim that US advocated regime change is never ever based on the democratic credentials of the regime.>>

and there's an argument for that. but what has it to do with whether Maduro is a usurper who should go?

chacqueschirac - 24 Jan 2019 22:10:45 (#9 of 160)

but what has it to do with whether Maduro is a usurper who should go?



That you should not take the word of US officials or its media as a guide to judge it.

Quite simple, really.

barkis - 24 Jan 2019 22:18:55 (#10 of 160)

In what way is Maduro a usurper? Who was the throne usurped from? As I understand it he won elections in which the opposition refused to take part. I've seen quotations from various people saying that the elections were rigged, but all these people are politicians of the right.

brooklyn - 24 Jan 2019 22:59:50 (#11 of 160)

<<That you should not take the word of US officials or its media as a guide to judge it.

Quite simple, really.>>

I completely agree. nor will I take the word of the OAS, the rest of Latin America (give or take), a bunch of our friends in Europe, etc. I will let the facts guide me. you can provide some, when that's convenient. and explain how you discovered them.

<<In what way is Maduro a usurper?>>

that's where the facts come in. some say he had a bunch of toadies on a court try to geld the legislature because they opposed him, and set up a competing legislature to take their place. if he did that, he is a usurper. let me add that in a democracy, you don't have to be on a throne to usurp shared power.

HorseEasyEast - 24 Jan 2019 23:05:55 (#12 of 160)

It's all a fucking farce of course, they've been hammering VZ with everything they have for forever.

My only question is why now? Because the US gov is shut down? I'd guess probably.

AdrianNTierney - 24 Jan 2019 23:33:12 (#13 of 160)

... they've been hammering VZ with everything they have for forever.

But there never was a need for such "hammering" since Chavez and Maduro did ALL that was needed to destroy Venezuela's economy.

And ... they succeeded!

HorseEasyEast - 24 Jan 2019 23:50:56 (#14 of 160)

ant, please go fuck yourself

YorenInTheNorth - 24 Jan 2019 23:56:48 (#15 of 160)

Maduro is certainly more a tyrant than a democrat but the US is playing into his hands by backing the opposition.

He gets to paint them as US stooges (and some are) and sabre rattle about rebellion and war.

HorseEasyEast - 25 Jan 2019 00:08:51 (#16 of 160)

indeed yore, unfortunately suspicion there runs deep rightly so. It's been only a few years since the last failed cia led coup.

AdrianNTierney - 25 Jan 2019 00:27:41 (#17 of 160)

ant, please go fuck yourself

A truly mesmerizing response, based on well-researched sources, eh?

HorseEasyEast - 25 Jan 2019 00:38:36 (#18 of 160)

I have read hundreds of your posts, yes it is well-researched.

brooklyn - 25 Jan 2019 02:56:13 (#19 of 160)

<<Maduro is certainly more a tyrant than a democrat but....>>

ah. then your position is not that the US (and all the other nations that agree, and the OAS) are wrong. you are concerned about their tactics.

that's fair. but hey, it's better than invasion.

chacqueschirac - 25 Jan 2019 06:20:22 (#20 of 160)

I will let the facts guide me.



You don't know the facts.

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