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Started by RankBajin on Oct 29, 2011 2:57:01 PM
Sir Jimmy Savile dies aged 84

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16099015

So:

  • Kiddly fiddler?
  • Corpse toucher?
  • Other? (please specify)
  • All of the above?

solomongursky - 08 Aug 2021 23:20:11 (#16861 of 17115)

Jerry Sadowitz

That was at The Fringe, '87, the same year as Burgess wrote the quotes upthread.

carterbrandon - 08 Aug 2021 23:26:33 (#16862 of 17115)

Don't just imply that Sadowitz was just parotting Burgess, say it if you mean it.

Either way, there are plenty of working class people who saw through Savile, and plenty of establishment figures who (let's be charitable and say) didn't. Why?

solomongursky - 08 Aug 2021 23:32:55 (#16863 of 17115)

Don't just imply that Sadowitz was just parotting Burgess, say it

Not saying that at all, I'm saying people knew years ago and I doubt Burgess was a fan at all or mixed in those circles so how did he know? Burgess said that Savile "loved the young" which is a less actionable version of what Sadowitz said. My point was, wildly disparate people knew.

mikeshadow - 08 Aug 2021 23:40:54 (#16864 of 17115)

Many people were probably blinded by Savile’s fund-raising. This Graun article was written just two years before his death.

Jim fixes it for medical students

The entertainer and philanthropist has decided to fund medical research by undergraduates

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/jul/14/
medical-research-funding-jimmy-savile

donttellhimpike - 08 Aug 2021 23:47:46 (#16865 of 17115)

There are a few stories of nurses and others who tried to raise their concerns but were told he brought in too much money to kick up a fuss. I'm not sure blinded is the correct term, corrupted seems more apt.

MysteryDate - 09 Aug 2021 04:19:11 (#16866 of 17115)

He also found out things about people and used those things to warn them off if they raised concerns.

Tenesmus - 09 Aug 2021 06:02:25 (#16867 of 17115)

Haven't heard that one. Any examples?

Ginmonkey - 09 Aug 2021 08:04:48 (#16868 of 17115)

I don't claim any insight but Saville always creeped me out as a kid. May be it is because I was too young for his seventies pomp, I recall him as a rather odd looking and creepy old man from Jim'll Fix - a programme I hated anyway.

In my new world of younger presenters on things like Live and Kicking he looks like a strange relic from a different time.

For my generation he was seen as a bit of a creepy joke figure - like an odder version of Smashy and Nicey. As I said in the late nineties/ early 2000s I had friends who were starting work as runners in TV and radio and the rumours were pretty openly talked about.

RosyLovelady - 09 Aug 2021 08:12:23 (#16869 of 17115)

He was admired (by parents and other authority figures) in the early 1960s because he'd been a coal-miner and didn't speak mid-Atlantic like most radio DJs.

darkhorse - 09 Aug 2021 08:21:37 (#16870 of 17115)

It's not a good habit to point the "paedo!" accusation at people just because they have an odd manner. Think of the millions of creepy oddballs worldwide who aren't paedos.

Catspyjamas17 - 09 Aug 2021 08:34:47 (#16871 of 17115)

Most entertainers and DJ in the 80s never chimed with me at all as a kid they were supposed to be entertaining, they were just people given money for old rope for years. Most of them seemed like creepy old men to me, whether they were creepy in "that way" or not.

Ginmonkey - 09 Aug 2021 08:38:54 (#16872 of 17115)

I agree there DH. For me as a kid Jimmy Saville just seems old and strange - why was I meant to find him entertaining?

As Cats said many of the DJs and entertainers from tne eighties seemed odd and unfunny to children's eyes. He was just at the oddest and unfunniest end.

ReverendBlueJeans - 09 Aug 2021 08:58:52 (#16873 of 17115)

Listened to his Sunday Radio 1 themed oldies programme. I learned a lot about music from 'before my time' from that. Like kids don't now.

Not sure retrospective 'creepy' observations are helpful. They're certainly not objective.

At the time, viewers and listeners knew nothing. Some, like the BBC, did.

Catspyjamas17 - 09 Aug 2021 09:06:16 (#16874 of 17115)

Clearly they aren't objective, but they represent contemporaneous feelings.

Ginmonkey - 09 Aug 2021 09:35:55 (#16875 of 17115)

Indeed cats. Like you say it wasn't a paedo feeling as such more "why the fuck are these strange boring old men on kids programmes".

The thing here is the eighties and nineties generation of kids never saw Saville as a DJ or musical icon - just that strangley dressed weirdo who turned up on threadbare Saturday night entertainment shows and running the marathon. Just one of a parade of bafflingly popular relics from previous years.

Our cultural references are different and he and his contemporaries seemed hopelessly strange and old fashioned to us.

levelgaze - 09 Aug 2021 09:37:24 (#16876 of 17115)

It was a combination of things that enabled him, I think. As has often been said, his reputation in Leeds was particular - but it was that he was a nasty, dangerous piece of work with local power and protection; that he was predatory and to be avoided; and that he fiddled with corpses.

The 'weird 70s' was definitely part of it, as was his careful creation of a persona and a do-gooder. Plus 'hitting on' young girls was still often seen primarily as a prediliction, rather than an outrage - and, perhaps, part of the music business, something Groupie-like. A blind eye was turned in some institutions, it's clear; and it seems he was extremely cunning as well as being a bizarre in-plain-sight risk-taker. And God, he was a sort of abusive omnivore.

Ginmonkey - 09 Aug 2021 09:43:29 (#16877 of 17115)

Oh yes indeed - the whole sixties and seventies pop culture of seeing young girls as sexual fair game definitely helped enable him.

Of course there are men who are still revered today whose treatment of young girls does not stand up to much scrutiny.

BasilSeal - 09 Aug 2021 09:44:54 (#16878 of 17115)

. My point was, wildly disparate people knew.



I don't think it's a given that people like Sadowitz actually knew Savile was a sex offender. It's possible that he did, it's also possible that he simply saw Savile as a creepy establishment figure, and coming out with outrageous comments about such a figure was what he did.

The rumours about Savile were well known on GUT, and many of us referenced and memed them all the time in one way or another, none of us actually knew they were true though.

I'd question to what extent individuals were aware of Savile's actual behaviour, or simply aware of the rumours that were attached to him, these two things are quite different.

Lots of people knew about the rumours and these people fell into two distinct camps. Those who were open to believing they could well be true because they didn't like Savile or his style of 'entertainment', and those who didn't want to believe there could be truth in the rumours and closed their mind to the possibility either because they likes Savile as a celebrity, or because they had a vested interest in his continued popularity.

BasilSeal - 09 Aug 2021 09:45:59 (#16879 of 17115)

It's not a good habit to point the "paedo!" accusation at people just because they have an odd manner. Think of the millions of creepy oddballs worldwide who aren't paedos.



Yeah but in terms of just 70's TV presenters, if we's just arrested all the ones who looked like paedophiles, we'd have pretty much got it right.

Shadrack22 - 09 Aug 2021 09:50:12 (#16880 of 17115)

Alan Bennett in Writing Home reviewing a Larkin biography:

I go straight to Great Ormond Street, where Sam is in Intensive Care. See sick children (and in particular one baby almost hidden under wires and apparatus) and Larkin’s fear of death seems self-indulgent. Sitting there I find myself wondering what would have happened had he worked in a hospital once a week like (dare one say it?) Jimmy Savile.

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