No smilies, no avatars, no flashing gifs. Just discuss the issues of the day, from last night's telly via football to science or philosophy.
Started by RankBajin on Oct 29, 2011 2:57:01 PM
Sir Jimmy Savile dies aged 84


  • Kiddly fiddler?
  • Corpse toucher?
  • Other? (please specify)
  • All of the above?

Ripliad - 20 Nov 2012 23:58:13 (#8501 of 17198)


Isolde - 21 Nov 2012 00:24:48 (#8502 of 17198)

Someone who wrote The New Machiavelli: The Art of Politics in Business

It did seem to me to be rather too convenient that Messham was the fall guy one they hauled up front.

But one mustn't jump to conclusions.

Isolde - 21 Nov 2012 00:25:47 (#8503 of 17198)

Too late... I'd left the window open for a while!

springplease - 21 Nov 2012 01:30:46 (#8504 of 17198)

Which gender do you think is responsible for the overwhelming majority of sexual abuse?

Cols, before I answer that, let's pretend it's 1965 and ask/answer some questions:

How common is sexual abuse of children?

So rare it's barely worth mentioning.

What is the profile of a sexual abuser?

Overwhelmingly, the answer would be, a dirty old man, unemployed or lower income, with little education, who hides in allies.

These myths have been disproven with increasing data and facts since the 1970s.

Now, to answer your question today. We lack the facts to actually know if one gender sexually abuses more often than the other.

If you look at men convicted of rape, the answer would be that women are overwhelmingly the ones who sexually abuse more often, as the statistics on male rapists convicted of rape with a history of childhood sexual abuse by a woman is from somewhere in the 60 percent to clost to 90 percent, based on various research.

If you look at recent studies of the general population, female sexual abusers make up between 25 to 40 percent, so the answer would be the majority are men.

As a survivor, who has researched the subject and who broke her own silence years ago, I find that when I started being open about being a victim of sexual abuse with friends, those who had a similar history also share their stories. From that, I've found it is exactly 50/50, with mothers, step mothers, fathers, close family friends, and people in the education system being the perpetrators.

When it comes to understanding the extent of female sexual predators, we're at about the equivalent of where we were in the early 1970s with knowing the extent of male perpetrators.

Much the same, in order to get to the truth, we need to dump a whole lot of sexist and classist assumptions first.

I know it's hard to wrap one's head around the fact that women could be sexually abusing as often as men. But back in the 1970s, the idea that respectable middle class fathers sexually abused their daughters was even harder for people to wrap their heads around.

Ripliad - 21 Nov 2012 01:35:12 (#8505 of 17198)

That's a horrible story, spring. Thank you, genuinely, for telling us.

springplease - 21 Nov 2012 01:37:01 (#8506 of 17198)

I am having a hard time getting my head around those McAlpine quotes, to be honest.

If I can find the book in the library, I might read it. I think sometimes I'm still a little too naive about how Machiavelian and morally corrupt some politicians and leaders can be.

Ripliad - 21 Nov 2012 01:38:45 (#8507 of 17198)

I'd not take the quote too seriously, to be honest. I think he was quoting Machiavelli.

springplease - 21 Nov 2012 01:52:46 (#8508 of 17198)

Ripliad, I actually realized tonight how lucky I am to have lived long enough to see public awareness about sexual abuse reach the levels it has and that, in fact, even speaking of sexual abuse by women is no longer the taboo it once was.

Sexual abuse will likely never be eradicated, but it certainly is being increasingly exposed and challenged and children will be increasingly protected from it. That is such a good feeling.

As for the McAlpine quote... er... well, still, the idea of trying to apply Machiavellian principles to modern business and politics is rather vile to me. THe shift has to be towards greater ethics and integrity.

Ripliad - 21 Nov 2012 01:58:58 (#8509 of 17198)

Regarding your last para, I think we've a long wait. Sadly.

I don't know what to say re your first two. Shocked Shocked that people are such bastards.

Questicles - 21 Nov 2012 06:37:55 (#8510 of 17198)

As to how McAlpines name first came up publicly in relation to the Newsnight story, Michael Crick is being very evasive on his Twitter account.

Either he, David Leigh or both of them have misinformed the public. Overton and Stickler may have stuffed up at some level, but they have paid a high price while Crick and Leigh sail on regardless.

Questicles - 21 Nov 2012 07:40:05 (#8511 of 17198)

11th Nov

Amy Mackinnon ‏@ak_mack Iain Overton of TBIJ and Michael Crick of C4 news hv more to answer for in this than Entwistle, having named McApline @ Oxford Union debate

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick @ak_mack I didn't name McAlpine anywhere

Amy Mackinnon ‏@ak_mack @MichaelLCrick Fair enough, as I said, I was just going by @Davidleigh3 article in Guardian.

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick @ak_mack That article is not one of David Leigh's best pieces, alas. It's inaccurate on several points.

David Leigh ‏@davidleigh3 @MichaelLCrick @ak_mack Will willingly acknowledge any inaccuracies if you tell me of them

Apparently an after debate booze up at the Oxford Union is covered by Chatham House rules. It seems clear that both Crick and Leigh have broken those rules, although perhaps somewhat selectively. In saying that Leigh's article is innacurate and that he did not name McAlpine "anywhere", Crick's statements look the least convincing imo.

Leftie - 21 Nov 2012 10:30:34 (#8512 of 17198)

Good grief.

Post by deleted user
tasselhoff - 21 Nov 2012 10:34:06 (#8514 of 17198)

Haha! Same here.

solomongursky - 21 Nov 2012 11:01:39 (#8515 of 17198)

Looks like he's keeping the Schofield and beeb cash and giving the twitter fivers to Children In Need:

frantastic - 21 Nov 2012 12:46:03 (#8516 of 17198)

Can I send my kids round to McAlpine's for a week while I'm away on holiday?

Coslefacteur - 21 Nov 2012 13:51:39 (#8517 of 17198)


Are you suggesting that between 25 and 90% of sexual abuse is done by women?

My falsifiable hypothesis, based on the evidence available to me, is that the overwhelming majority of sexual abuse is done by men.

I would ask you to post your "various research" if only to explain your paragraph that up to 90% of men convicted of rape have been sexually abused as a child by women.

Don't bother. Let's just agree to differ.

Bobthebuilder - 21 Nov 2012 13:57:14 (#8518 of 17198)

Many people who work with abused children agree that between 5% and 10% of sexual abuse against children, often younger children, is done by women.

Coslefacteur - 21 Nov 2012 14:25:16 (#8519 of 17198)

Here's some evidence!

Although males clearly constitute the majority of perpetrators, a review of the evidence for female sex abusers (McCloskey & Raphael, 2005), suggests that females do abuse in a small proportion of cases. Data from the US National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) showed that males made up 90% of adult child sexual assault perpetrators, while 3.9% of perpetrators were female with a further 6% classified as "unknown gender" (McCloskey & Raphael, 2005). In a study comparing male and female perpetrated child sexual abuse using data from the 1998 Canadian Incidence Study of Reported Child Abuse and Neglect (Peter, 2009), 10.7% of child sexual abuse incidents were found to be perpetrated by females. McCloskey and Raphael (2005) argued that female perpetrators of child sexual abuse could be much higher as many cases go under-reported.

I believe that female sexual abuse may be under-reported. I don't think it'll be the paedogeddon spring expects though.

solomongursky - 21 Nov 2012 14:32:18 (#8520 of 17198)

Staff at Stoke Mandeville hospital were today accused of covering up Jimmy Savile’s sexual abuse of patients and allowing it to carry on.

Liz Dux, a lawyer acting for 40 alleged victims, said two girls under 16 were abused by him as patients and when they told hospital staff nothing was done.

Her claims came before a second documentary about Savile, which explores the “culpability” of institutions in allowing him to abuse hundreds of children.

Ms Dux said: “If someone goes into hospital and makes a complaint about being abused, it should be taken seriously.” The two women are suing the hospital trust Buckinghamshire Healthcare.

A Trust spokesman said: “We are thoroughly reviewing all information available to establish the processes and arrangements in place over the past 40 years.”

Savile’s family were today trying to get ITV to remove a segment from tonight’s Exposure Update, which is said to include an interview with Caroline Robinson, 49, the DJ’s great-niece, in which she claims he abused her.

Check Subscriptions
Home » Media