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Started by fenderstrat on Jan 21, 2019 8:18:54 AM
What proportion of dividends goes where?

What goes to pension funds, who owns these?

What goes to private individuals? What level of wealth do the beneficiaries have?

Does any go offshore?

Record dividends last year, even in the final quarter. (Graun today).

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Ginmonkey - 21 Jan 2019 08:48:16 (#1 of 52)

You need to clarify the question. Are you asking this about all shares in all companies or just publically listed ones? The first thing you would have to do it look at the proportion of shares owned by individuals and those owned by funds, including pension funds.

To answer personally I own shares in three companies. In two cases the dividends went to me to spend how I please, in the other case we shareholders decided to put it back in to the company to invest.

xDiggy - 21 Jan 2019 08:54:44 (#2 of 52)

I got about £140 from my biggest shareholding last year. Which is always nice, given that they made me redundant ten years ago.

fenderstrat - 21 Jan 2019 09:07:41 (#3 of 52)

Thanks, gin. I was thinking about listed companies.

Ginmonkey - 21 Jan 2019 09:12:45 (#4 of 52)

Well then your frst job is to find info on the proportion of shares in those companjes owned by indivudals and the proportion owned by pension funds. Some may also be owned by staff as part of their salary package.

However I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this exercise.

fenderstrat - 21 Jan 2019 09:17:00 (#5 of 52)

I’m a scientist. I don’t do proof! But I do hypothesise and look for data to support or refute. In this case, my first reaction to the news of record dividends was that it supports the proposition of increasing inequality. But then I questioned that because it clearly not the whole story - dividends don’t just benefit the wealthy.

But I realise that I don’t know the numbers and I bet someone here does. Or can signpost.

xDiggy - 21 Jan 2019 09:20:06 (#6 of 52)

You need a hell of a lot of shares to make any serious money from dividends - you’re only looking at low single-figure percentages. The real boost to inequality over the last ten years has been in the rising value of shares, driven in part by QE, low interest rates, the tech boom, etc.

Ginmonkey - 21 Jan 2019 09:31:14 (#7 of 52)

I would say rampant house price inflation and failure to tax the gains properly have been the bigger drivers of rising inequality.

mikeshadow - 28 Jan 2019 01:17:53 (#8 of 52)

This analysis on this site should answer your question fenders:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/investmentspensions
andtrusts/bulletins/ownershipofukquotedshares/2016#
main-points

fenderstrat - 28 Jan 2019 06:49:01 (#9 of 52)

Thank you, Mike. That's very helpful indeed.

TRaney - 29 Jan 2019 15:02:19 (#10 of 52)

https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2019/01/who-owns-all-the-stocks-bonds/

fenderstrat - 29 Jan 2019 15:40:22 (#11 of 52)

Interesting, Traney, thank you.

US analysis, cuts the cake differently to the previous one from Mike. Surprised (not for any good reason, just surprised) to see such a high degree of "household" stock ownership in the US. Mostly directly by the very wealthy.

mememe - 31 Jan 2019 09:12:25 (#12 of 52)

Really? I thought it was common knowledge that the US is a country where people buy stock. After all, Mrs T very publicly said she wanted the UK to follow their lead.

BenSawbridg - 31 Jan 2019 09:38:18 (#13 of 52)

As opposed to fund ownership presumably? If you invest in a stocks and shares ISA you find the provider will push you in the fund direction I guess from a risk point of view (and a fees point of view).

TRaney - 31 Jan 2019 09:40:34 (#14 of 52)

Vaguely in topic does anyone more have a link for a clear simple historical graph of government spending, revenue and borrowing? I’ve been on the ONS, etc but it’s all a bit complicated.

JohnIlly - 31 Jan 2019 09:41:18 (#15 of 52)

If you invest in a tracker fund do you only get the rise in share value or are the dividends added to the fund?

xDiggy - 31 Jan 2019 09:43:10 (#16 of 52)

They are normally ploughed back into buying more fund ‘accumulating’. But you can get ‘distributing’ investments too.

brooklyn - 01 Feb 2019 22:27:30 (#17 of 52)

wiki, for what it's worth:

<<In the United States, mutual funds play an important role in U.S. household finances. At the end of 2016, 22% of household financial assets were held in mutual funds. Their role in retirement savings was even more significant, since mutual funds accounted for roughly half of the assets in individual retirement accounts, 401(k)s and other similar retirement plans.[7]>>

TRaney - 05 Feb 2019 08:04:47 (#18 of 52)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/opinion/chuck-schumer-bernie-sanders.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-04/schumer-sanders-buyback-solution-is-misguided

TRaney - 06 Feb 2019 09:04:20 (#19 of 52)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-05/lloyd-blankfein-returns-to-twitter-to-defend-stock-buybacks

brooklyn - 12 Feb 2019 04:14:31 (#20 of 52)

<<Sanders and Schumer are right that there is a problem with buybacks, but it really has to do with information. The returns from buybacks are often quick and easier to see. Paying higher wages or buying equipment is a less certain, longer-term investment. There should be more information around wages so that investors and others can see the return on that investment. Companies should not just have to expense the cost of stock-based compensation but disclose it more prominently. Prohibiting dividends and buybacks financed by debt could be an avenue worth exploring.>>

what crap. "these hugely rich people are further enriching themselves but they will stop if we give them more information."

you bet.

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