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Started by Policywatcher on May 8, 2018 10:16:41 PM
Weedkillers more toxic than their active ingredient.
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Policywatcher - 08 May 2018 22:18:29 (#1 of 21)

US government researchers have uncovered evidence that some popular weedkilling products, like Monsanto’s widely-used Roundup, are potentially more toxic to human cells than their active ingredient is by itself.

... “We see the formulations are much more toxic. The formulations were killing the cells. The glyphosate really didn’t do it,” DeVito said.

A summary of the NTP work stated that glyphosate formulations decreased human cell “viability”, disrupting cell membranes. Cell viability was “significantly altered” by the formulations, it stated.

rgtstoppedcounting - 08 May 2018 22:37:24 (#2 of 21)

Looks like I was right not to drink Roundup.

Verdigris - 08 May 2018 22:45:21 (#3 of 21)

An agricultural contractor I knew got a brain tumour. He was involved with spraying trials for Monsanto. Monsanto paid for him to have brain surgery in the USA.

Could have been purely coincidental, of course.

demoninatutu - 09 May 2018 04:09:23 (#4 of 21)

Another quote from DeVito: "DeVito said the NTP first-phase results do not mean the formulations are causing cancer or any other disease. "

In other words, testing on glyphosate itself is not conclusive and so more testing is required on the final formulation. That's interesting but really not much news at this stage.

bossab2 - 09 May 2018 07:23:59 (#5 of 21)

Interestingly, according to its COSHH sheet Roundup is completely non toxic.

demoninatutu - 09 May 2018 09:48:06 (#6 of 21)

It almost certainly is. But these are new preliminary findings that are worthy of further investigation.

SinnerBoy - 09 May 2018 10:13:42 (#7 of 21)

bossab2 -

Interestingly, according to its COSHH sheet Roundup is completely non toxic.

It's true, I always use it as a mixer for my gin.

thisonehasalittlehat - 09 May 2018 10:24:49 (#8 of 21)

We don't have a sprinkler so I let my kids play in sprays of roundup on hot days.

browserbutton - 09 May 2018 10:36:19 (#9 of 21)

Is that the game they call 'Agent Orange'?

thisonehasalittlehat - 09 May 2018 10:39:02 (#10 of 21)

Yes and we have a game we use jelly for called "nay palm!"

AlanII - 09 May 2018 12:11:09 (#11 of 21)

And that perennial family favourite, Novo Checkers.

Catspyjamas17 - 09 May 2018 12:22:05 (#12 of 21)

It's pretty unclear from the article whether this is anything new or of any concern to regular consumers of RoundUp or just to those who are involved with the industrial scale application of it.

Of course it's bloody toxic and nasty stuff. To plants at least, one would hope.

thisonehasalittlehat - 09 May 2018 12:23:51 (#13 of 21)

Are you a regular consumer cats?

Catspyjamas17 - 09 May 2018 12:30:31 (#14 of 21)

I'm trying to cut down. Only three nights a week now.

SinnerBoy - 09 May 2018 14:29:58 (#15 of 21)

Quitter!

demoninatutu - 10 May 2018 03:37:43 (#16 of 21)

"It's pretty unclear from the article whether this is anything new or of any concern to regular consumers of RoundUp or just to those who are involved with the industrial scale application of it."

That's quite deliberate because 1) it isn't anything new, and 2) it's not of any concern to anyone, for the time being at least. But non-news won't sell Carey Gillam's book. This article is below the usual high standards of Guardian science reporting, I suspect it coming from the US edition has something to do with it.

demoninatutu - 10 May 2018 03:38:10 (#17 of 21)

A biologist responds to the article:

http://kfolta.blogspot.jp/2018/05/interpreting-weed-killer-formulations.html

SinnerBoy - 11 May 2018 10:18:34 (#18 of 21)

Surfactants have detergent-like properties. At even marginal concentrations they will affect cells in a Petri dish. Just like a tiny bit of dish soap, shampoo, or Dr. Bonner's Pure Castile soap.

One of the best papers to illustrate the cytotoxic properties of the surfactants comes from Dr. Fiona Young's group. She shows that glyphosate has no effect on cells as an endocrine disruptor, and complete formulations become cytotoxic because of the surfactants.

So, she's contradicting herself there. She's claiming that glyphosate isn't toxic, but that it becomes hazardous to cell health, when surfactants allow it to penetrate human cells.

So, whilst saying that the glyphosate compound, by itself, is relartively harmless, the formulation of Roundup actually enables it to penetrate the human body and disrupt some of its functions; i.e. being toxic to the body.

This is how Gillam continues her deception, spinning a known finding (detergents kill cells in petri dishes at certain concentrations) to imply some sort of risk to humans when none is observed.

That doesn't seem to be accurate at all, as I've explained. If a surfactant is added to glyphosate, it is able to penetrate the human body. Roundup is formulation of glyphosate, with surfactants and other compounds added, in order for it to penetrate waxy and oily plants.

demoninatutu - 11 May 2018 12:33:58 (#19 of 21)

become cytotoxic because of the surfactants.

She's claiming that glyphosate isn't toxic, but that it becomes hazardous to cell health

She's not claiming that because she's talking about only the surfactants, not the glyphosate. This is well known science and applies to many (most, I should think) household surfactants when applied to cells in a petri dish. Under normal conditions, and at normal doses, these chemicals are no more dangerous than organic foodstuffs, and a good deal less dangerous than some.

SinnerBoy - 20 May 2018 18:40:18 (#20 of 21)

Surfactants alone, added to cells in a petri dish, are apt to cause lysis. A forumulation of the stuff is said to pass through the skin more readily.

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