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Started by SheikYerbouti on Dec 23, 2018 9:33:34 AM
Grunting, roaring and weeping: a modern masculinity

In which Tim Lott seeks his inner hero, and shares intimate moments with a man called Adam.

Anyone here been on an event like this? Or is considering it? It all sounds quite revelatory.

SheikYerbouti - 23 Dec 2018 10:52:00 (#1 of 101)

I am sad that not even halfnelson has any thoughts to share on this matter.

cozzer - 23 Dec 2018 11:20:18 (#2 of 101)

- 10 points

Delighted_User - 23 Dec 2018 11:22:00 (#3 of 101)

I lost them as well.

levelgaze - 23 Dec 2018 11:24:57 (#4 of 101)

These things seem to crop up every decade. The first I remember was Robert Bly's 'Iron John' shenanigans in the 80s/90s.

SheikYerbouti - 23 Dec 2018 11:36:43 (#5 of 101)

Won't someone think of the white middle class men? Who will listen to our needs?

HouseOfLametta - 23 Dec 2018 11:37:47 (#6 of 101)

Cotton Traders.

RosyLovelady - 23 Dec 2018 12:21:12 (#7 of 101)

This sort of thing happened a bit but didn't catch on in the 1970s. They were a manly response to those sometimes excruciating consciousness-raising events for women who felt they weren't yet feminist enough and needed a bit of bullying from those who were.

bossab2 - 23 Dec 2018 12:24:04 (#8 of 101)

Christ, the Graun publishes some rubbish.

sqeezy - 23 Dec 2018 12:29:34 (#9 of 101)

refrains in spirit of Xmas

TRaney - 23 Dec 2018 13:32:11 (#10 of 101)

I’ve done some heavy breathing and I’d like to say how much I appreciate your sense of humour Sheik.

TRaney - 23 Dec 2018 14:26:48 (#11 of 101)

Why is no one affirming me?? I feel so naïeve now

Dubris - 23 Dec 2018 20:11:17 (#12 of 101)

Having read the article, my firm opinion is that it all sounds really rather irritating and forced.

uranrising - 24 Dec 2018 18:30:55 (#13 of 101)

Having read most of it, I was just a little irritated with him early on for sounding like an uninvolved male observer.

It improved later and I noted this bit

When the other men in the group tell me what they appreciate about me, I find myself very moved. I realise I am not used to experiencing this kind of praise, from either gender. Men often survive in a culture of criticism. I don’t think I’m unusual in recalling a father who almost never praised me.

Does that bit I've selected remind anyone of anywhere?

I'm all for this sort of thing if you get benefits from it, as Lott appeared to. And there are many paths about this sort of thing.

I've not experienced this particular one, and never knock something I know nothing about.

Personally, I'd say any man who undertakes any sort of attempt at inner exploration, and exploring what relating to others might be, is an absolute hero; partly because of the vast hostility of so many males.

Happy Christmas.

SheikYerbouti - 24 Dec 2018 18:32:45 (#14 of 101)

Does that bit I've selected remind anyone of anywhere?

I hope you're not suggesting that poor old men are endlessly criticised on here. #pooroldmen

uranrising - 24 Dec 2018 19:02:42 (#15 of 101)

The very ideaaaaaa... doesn't bear thinking about.

So best not to think about it.

Dubris - 24 Dec 2018 19:35:28 (#16 of 101)

In a spirit of inclusivity, I try to criticise my fellow posters regardless of their gender and whether I know about it.

uranrising - 24 Dec 2018 20:04:36 (#17 of 101)

Perhaps there are other ways to relate to people, some of which are less likely to make people close down, retreat, hide, fall silent, go elsewhere, merely counter-attack etc.; and more likely to encourage them to speak, relate, be more open, engage, share, empathise, listen etc.?

GyratingTrampoline - 24 Dec 2018 20:55:22 (#18 of 101)

It's very easy to pooh pooh the "then we did some navajo chanting whilst staring into each other's eyes" aspect, but the writer obviously found it to be a profound experience and has chosen to tell us about it so I'm not inclined to take the piss.

Not do I see the relevance of the "poor privileged white men" comments here. There's no claim of a struggle against oppression.

I have at least two friends who I think could benefit from the sort of experience described, although alas neither of them would be able to take it seriously enough to engage with it.

The thing I don't get its why it's necessary for it to be men only. This aspect seems to posit a particular type of bottled-up-emotion or whatever which its not only exclusively male, but which can't even be addressed in a mixed setting. Like we men are all tainted by "toxic masculinity" but those of us who recognise this and would like to make amends have to undergo some sort of masculinity detox basically. Seems a bit reductive to me.

Pentecost - 24 Dec 2018 21:11:53 (#19 of 101)

The writer for a newspaper is paid to write for a newspaper. Maybe has a book coming out next year. We've no idea what he genuinely found a profound experience or not.

Dubris - 25 Dec 2018 18:01:59 (#20 of 101)

Sometimes I find it very easy to be in touch with my emotions; sometimes I don't.

Roaring and weeping in a roomful of other men however would just make me feel so awkward I'd never want to have emotions ever again. The whole business sounds so forced and unnatural. I'd rather understand contemporary masculinity in a way that didn't have my toes curling with embarrassment.

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