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Started by GyratingTrampoline on Sep 7, 2015 11:15:15 PM
Bumface kills welshman
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HarveyRabbit - 07 Sep 2015 23:43:24 (#1 of 550)

I hate the fact that having lost the vote in Parliament about getting the UK military involved in Syria and Cameron telling the assembled MPs that the government had got the message, he has gone and specifically authorised an attack, by the UK military, in Syria.

That's quite apart from the details of this attack - "targetted", "outside a formal conflict", by an "unmanned drone".

Here we have the new language of terror-war and bollocks to the Geneva Conventions.

donttellhimpike - 08 Sep 2015 00:04:35 (#2 of 550)

I love how people are acting like this is anything new. The British state has been using proxies to kill British citizens for well over fifty years. This time they used a drone, in the past they used Loyalists.

Ebadlun - 08 Sep 2015 01:39:42 (#3 of 550)

Whatever the other rights and wrongs, I don't see that these people being British somehow grants them special consideration. They've crossed continents to join an organisation that actively advertises its brutality, and to enter a war zone as a combatant - nobody could be less of a victim.

Macavity1963 - 08 Sep 2015 03:33:09 (#4 of 550)

This

Gotout - 08 Sep 2015 07:24:30 (#5 of 550)

I don't see that these people being British somehow grants them special consideration.



They use the term 'British' when it suits them. They want any protection they can get from it, but have no loyalty to it. They would happily murder British civilians in this country if their twisted leaders demanded it.

BallyMoney - 08 Sep 2015 07:50:48 (#6 of 550)

I can do bleeding heart hesitant liberalism as well as the next man, but you know what? I really have no problem whatsoever with this.

ISIS is a gencidal band which uses rape as matter of policy not as some unfortunate element gone out of control.

upgoerfive - 08 Sep 2015 07:52:16 (#7 of 550)

They use the term 'British' when it suits them. They want any protection they can get from it, but have no loyalty to it. They would happily murder British civilians in this country if their twisted leaders demanded it.



But enough about the politicians ...

quartus - 08 Sep 2015 07:56:39 (#8 of 550)

If the killers of (say) Lee Rigby had just been summarily executed, as opposed to facing trial, can you imagine how many more terrorists would consequently be effectively "recruited", as it were, to their 'cause'?

Not even this govt is that dumb. It's only because the option of bringing the two UK jihadists to trial is an impossibility that this new tactic of death by drone has been employed. But the "self defence" plea that cameron's touting is well beyond the pale.

BallyMoney - 08 Sep 2015 08:00:07 (#9 of 550)

Its knee jerk comments like quartus which make me despair - we might as well all quit now.

Lee rigby was killed in a country of relative order, peace and democracy- where they could br tried. The British IS fighters have volunatrily gone to fight for a gencidal and rape band. And yet Cameron is "beyond the pale" for taking them out? Ridiculous.

quartus - 08 Sep 2015 08:03:01 (#10 of 550)

I edited just before you posted, BallyMoney. And no, it's not a knee-jerk reaction. Radio 4's just been examining the situation in some depth. It's Cameron's self-defence claim that's taking international law into semi-unchartered territory.

Fezziwig - 08 Sep 2015 08:07:16 (#11 of 550)

Can't imagine the great British public getting worked up over this matter. Many will say 'well done'.

BallyMoney - 08 Sep 2015 08:10:20 (#12 of 550)

Im all for examining things "in depth" its whats great about living in a democracy. The idea that you cant take out genocidal bandit members in a non state without going there and what? presentng a warrant, making a citizens arrest? telling the guy "to accompany them to the station"?

The idea that taking these bandits out is "Beyond the pale" is for people who essentially dont give a damm what is happening there, want to blame the govt whatever they do and think that IS wont affect them.

quartus - 08 Sep 2015 08:10:40 (#13 of 550)

You'd be ok with (say) Russian drones over Ukraine operating with the same "self-defence" justification?

have to go. W*rk beckons.

BallyMoney - 08 Sep 2015 08:13:17 (#14 of 550)

No quartus because Ukraine is a functioning state and is not full of a maruading gencidal raping band.

It really is not that difficult, well its not that difficult unless you try and twist reality round to an impossible degree in order to what? I really dont know where you are going with this.

GyratingTrampoline - 08 Sep 2015 08:29:17 (#15 of 550)

I agree that their britishness is not really an issue. I just don't think governments should be in the business of ordering people killed. Even if they are baddies, as it seems these ones were.

Moominmamma12 - 08 Sep 2015 08:31:49 (#16 of 550)

It's always worth questioning the rights and wrongs when any government or state authority summarily executes anyone, whatever they have done or were going to do.

Quartus is partly correct that any action where the state acts in this way it becomes a recruiting tool. It could also be said to be a deterrent to those who think they are untouchable and can disappear in certain parts of the globe.

SarastroderMensch - 08 Sep 2015 08:40:29 (#17 of 550)

Bumface kills welshman

And Comrade Carbon is readying his legal case at the Hague on behalf of the deceased.

BallyMoney - 08 Sep 2015 08:44:12 (#18 of 550)

GT - they are a little bit more than "baddies"

"Quartus is partly correct that any action where the state acts in this way it becomes a recruiting tool."

Thing is these people were recruiting tools already.

Dont get me wrong - we should examine carefully the situation on a case by case basis but If we dont launch a ground and air war on ISIS what is the alternative?

Post by deleted user
EchoChamber - 08 Sep 2015 08:58:23 (#20 of 550)

"Quartus is partly correct that any action where the state acts in this way it becomes a recruiting tool."

The perceived weakness or indecisiveness of states can also be a recruiting tool.

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