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Started by mingmong on Jan 15, 2016 11:08:28 PM
NHS on the brink of being dismantled - is this actually the case?
mingmong - 15 Jan 2016 23:16:25 (#1 of 434)

The key piece of recent legislation seems to be the Health and Social Care Act, but (according to this article) the work of undoing the NHS goes back to the 1980s

Point 8 in the article is particularly interesting:

Back in 2005, Jeremy Hunt co-authored a book Direct Democracy calling for the NHS to be dismantled. It included the line: “Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain”. David Cameron’s health advisor Nick Seddon, formerly of private healthcare company Circle, suggests that CCGs should be merged with private insurance companies and those who can afford to should contribute towards their health care.

Which might also account for point 9:

9. Brew the Perfect Storm

The Government consistently claims the health budget is protected. In reality, the NHS has been forced to make cuts of up to £15-20 billion and these are being extended. Tens of NHS trusts are in danger of going bust with PFI debts as a major factor. Sixty-six hospitals face closures of some kind. Never mind that buying out or renegotiating PFI contracts would solve this problem at a stroke.

Before getting into the more speculative (or not?) point 10:

10. Introduce Universal Private Health Insurance

So how will this brave, new world look? Our health service will have clinical commissioning groups acting as insurance pools, buying care from private companies. The NHS will become a state insurer along the lines of Medicare in the US. Meanwhile, personal health budgets – which allow patients, rather than doctors, to decide how money is spent on treating their conditions - will be extended to 5 million people by 2018. This is likely to lead to co-payments funded through private insurance.

JohnIlly - 15 Jan 2016 23:20:53 (#2 of 434)

If so, why the fuck isn't this headline news.

Because the Labour Party is incompetent at opposition.

mingmong - 15 Jan 2016 23:23:45 (#3 of 434)

I have heard, on this ere website, the view from the inside the NHS at the moment, to the effect that the service is being deliberately "salami sliced" in preparation for privatisation

Sometimes difficult to seperate facts from invective, but you've got to admit this one stinks to high heaven.

mingmong - 15 Jan 2016 23:25:09 (#4 of 434)

Because the Labour Party is incompetent at opposition.

Sad but true.

mingmong - 15 Jan 2016 23:29:12 (#5 of 434)

Worth noting the complicity of New Labour (foundation hospitals) in this process

thotch - 15 Jan 2016 23:31:53 (#6 of 434)

If only we had Alan Milburn.

Sunfish - 15 Jan 2016 23:33:50 (#7 of 434)

It's like the powers that be reached a pretty settled opinion on it some time ago and are now pushing us towards its implementation. Plus ca change...

Lawlsie - 15 Jan 2016 23:38:00 (#8 of 434)

Just at a time when many people can't afford to buy or often rent a house they'll have to start paying for health care. With an ageing population and older people being the main users of the NHS but also more likely to vote Tory how is that going to work?

clammy - 15 Jan 2016 23:39:23 (#9 of 434)

It's Corbyn fault.

mingmong - 15 Jan 2016 23:43:40 (#10 of 434)

It's Corbyn's opportunity.

Here is a naked example of the Tories acting completely against the desires and the interests of the voting public.

Lawlsie - 16 Jan 2016 00:08:37 (#11 of 434)

See also ending student maintenance grants for the poorest, making it a civil not a criminal offence if you don't have a TV licence thereby reducing the BBC's income and gradually cutting it down. See also MPs who are landlords refusing to vote for greater resposnbilities for landlords.

Then there's the gerrymandering of our democracy.

I can't see anything that will stop any of this.

We have to sit it out and wait for people to wake up and realise what's happening. The best opposition may come from the country. There has to be a way to make sure they don't get it all their own way.

It's a bit left field and not something I agree with but maybe voting to leave the EU is the only way to give this government a bloody nose. For sure it's not what it wants to happen.

mingmong - 16 Jan 2016 00:15:53 (#12 of 434)

Lawlsie - the EU thing aside, the charge-sheet is considerable. It just needs someone to spell it out. No-one in this country wants the NHS privatised, or see the Beeb turned into a crap version of Sky TV

But Labour has to pick its battles. And clarify its message. Like you, I've had my doubts about Corbyn. But frankly I don't shit a shit who does the kicking, as long as someone puts the boot into the Tories over this one

Lawlsie - 16 Jan 2016 00:18:55 (#13 of 434)

How though? The Tories are supported by all the biggest-selling newspapers and the BBC is cowered and afraid. And Channel 4's going to be privatised.

Twitter is an echo chamber where people talk to themselves.

Lawlsie - 16 Jan 2016 00:21:48 (#14 of 434)

I feel as hopeless about this as I did in the 80s. You just had to let it wash over you as best you could and pray for it to eventually end one day. Which it did. And it will again. Pendulums always swing back and there will be another financial crash at some point and this time it'll be on their watch, they'll look flabby, fat and complacent and people will long for a change and look elsewhere.

That'll happen around 2025/2030.

How much we can pull it back this time I've no idea. It may already be too late. However, look what Attlee's government achieved in 1945 after horrendous suffering for many during the 30s.

We need the majority to feel the hatred of the Tories we feel. While most people do okay and are perfectly fine with cuts that don't affect them the Tories will have a free ride.

If it ever hits the majority we may see change. Not for a long while though I don't think. 2020 is gone.

mingmong - 16 Jan 2016 00:23:54 (#15 of 434)

Hense the need for a simple message, repeated often, stuff that will cut across the noise.

I still believe Labour could do this. The mainstream media - lame as there are - will not resist a critical mass. If the wind changes direction, so will they.

Lawlsie - 16 Jan 2016 00:31:09 (#16 of 434)

So what's the message to be? Tories only care for the rich? Tories want to destroy the country? Labour is for all; Tories are for the few. You're better off with Labour.

I mean all these things are true but getting them across so they're believed - tough!

mingmong - 16 Jan 2016 00:32:04 (#17 of 434)

the message is the Tories are planning to sell-off the NHS

Not many people in this country would wear that.

Lawlsie - 16 Jan 2016 00:39:29 (#18 of 434)

Yeah but would they believe us?

The majority of their voting base relies the most heavily on the NHS. Beyond irony; it's truly tragic. They have voted against their own interests.

Lawlsie - 16 Jan 2016 00:40:03 (#19 of 434)

Anyway time for bed. Try not to have nightmares mingmong.


mingmong - 16 Jan 2016 00:40:47 (#20 of 434)

Moi aussi, Lawls

<raises half-full glass>

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