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Started by EcoCrimbo on 16-Dec-2016 22:33:02
Automisation Of Jobs

There's an increasing amount of this, one could list many examples so probably no need to be specific.

What economic, social and political effects do NTTers anticipate as more people find their labour surplus to requirements?

Thanks.

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AppleCatcher - 16 Dec 2016 23:03:44 (#1 of 1156)

Atomisation or automatisation?

JohnIlly - 16 Dec 2016 23:06:49 (#2 of 1156)

Automation has been worried about for the last 50 years at least. It was going to cause "the problem of leisure" at one time as we all went on two day weeks.

EcoCrimbo - 16 Dec 2016 23:08:28 (#3 of 1156)

I know JohnIlly, but we seem to be on the cusp of a new generation, and the 2 day week certainly didn't happen on the whole. I think the whole trend could and should usher in a more serious debate about Citizens Income.

Fezziwig - 16 Dec 2016 23:09:21 (#4 of 1156)

We were all going to have loads of leisure time.

rgtstoppedcounting - 16 Dec 2016 23:09:36 (#5 of 1156)

We've barely started. The professional classes have hardly been touched yet.

invicta - 16 Dec 2016 23:09:42 (#6 of 1156)

It's pointless. There are twice as many people on the planet as there were when I was born. And yet we want to build machines, to do their work, and leave the people with nothing to do. It's part of the longest suicide note in history.

EcoCrimbo - 16 Dec 2016 23:17:45 (#7 of 1156)

Pointless? maybe. Objectionable and problematic? Probably, at least in some regards. But it can hardly be legislated against, or at least isn't going to be.

In fact, if you speak out against it you tend to end up cast in with General Ludd.

It seeming inevitable, it's best we start figuring out how we adapt. I think the best political context might be social democracy or anarcho syndicalism.

JohnIlly - 16 Dec 2016 23:21:24 (#8 of 1156)

Having machines to replace nasty jobs like coalmining would be a good thing but modern developments are replacing checkout operators and bank clerks.

HouseOfLametta - 16 Dec 2016 23:32:43 (#9 of 1156)

There are still plenty of Peruvian children to do the coal mining.

Shadrack22 - 16 Dec 2016 23:37:08 (#10 of 1156)

Poor old Incas. Still getting the shitty end of the stick.

invicta - 16 Dec 2016 23:41:47 (#11 of 1156)

It seeming inevitable, it's best we start figuring out how we adapt. I think the best political context might be social democracy or anarcho syndicalism.

No. That's the political alternative which is, in itself, a single group's plan for personal supremacy.

EcoCrimbo - 16 Dec 2016 23:53:26 (#12 of 1156)

Well that's a misreading of anarchy I take it, but I am a pragmatic social democrat partially in recognition that people generally seem unconvinced to give anarchy a go.

EcoCrimbo - 16 Dec 2016 23:54:46 (#13 of 1156)

Having machines to replace nasty jobs like coalmining would be a good thing but modern developments are replacing checkout operators and bank clerks

Yep. The scab tills take as long as staffed ones these days at my local large-ish supermarket. They are sold as "fast lanes". It. Is. A. Lie.

JohnIlly - 16 Dec 2016 23:56:03 (#14 of 1156)

scab tills

Useful term.

upgoerfive - 17 Dec 2016 00:04:31 (#15 of 1156)

And the scab tills still require the intervention of a staff member for many transactions.

Presumably they screen out those of Luddite tendencies when assigning people to assist in the use of the machines which were designed to put them on the dole.

mikeshadow - 17 Dec 2016 00:57:55 (#16 of 1156)

Many office admin jobs have disappeared over the last 50 years due to the computerisation of many tasks.

Currently high street banks are closing hundreds of branches and shedding thousands of branch staff as more and more people use online banking.

pranzingfrogg - 17 Dec 2016 01:05:00 (#17 of 1156)

A machine can have my job. Soon as it likes.

But more seriously, it does seem that many employers are looking to do two incompatible things - cut staff to save costs and at the same time squeeze double the production out of the ones they can't get rid of, in order to maximise profits. Work as one way of keeping people occupied, even if it doesn't actually generate any wealth, may be an idea to sponsor for the future. But that would mean a really big shift to the perception of money as a means, rather than an end.

upgoerfive - 17 Dec 2016 01:11:56 (#18 of 1156)

Of course, if people aren't earning the money, they won't be spending it. Which rather sticks a spanner in the works.

Ginmonkey - 17 Dec 2016 07:29:12 (#19 of 1156)

A lot of office support jobs have gone. I am writing a report at the moment. Even just five years ago it would have been sent to an in house designer to put into house style. Now I have a template with various formats embedded and I just chose those.

In my previous job we had an online finance system where raised our own purchase orders, goods receipted orders and were expected to print out monthly budget statements to check our spend. This would have been performed by an accounts assistant not long ago.

darkhorse - 17 Dec 2016 07:32:37 (#20 of 1156)

I've never been a checkout till person, but it looks like a bloody boring job.

On my recent Xmas shopping, I noted self checkout in WH Smith and ..... Poundland.

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