No smilies, no avatars, no flashing gifs. Just discuss the issues of the day, from last night's telly via football to science or philosophy.
Started by GreenFuture on 08-Feb-2018 17:42:27
"Paedophile Hunters" - Up or Down etc?

For the uninitiated: The idea is that people, usually working in small groups, set up decoys on social media acting as children (generally 11-15 ish)

Then they set up a meeting or even visit them at home, video the whole thing, upload it and often call the police.

The grand-daddy of this was a Mainstream US show called "To Catch A Predator", which was nearly 10 years ago but pulled when a target topped himself. It still has a cult following. In the UK there are now several groups of varying professionalism (or not). Motives and working practice may leave a lot to be desired but on balance if they stop / dissuade people inter-acting with kids in this way isn't it a good thing overall? I dunno if the police have guidelines but I think they should. Thoughts appreciated.

Previous
|
Next
|
Top
|
Bottom
GreenFuture - 08 Feb 2018 17:44:39 (#1 of 117)

I've not linked to any in OP but they are easily found with YT searches like "nonce exposed" or "paedo hunter".

Most famous probably is "Stinson Hunter" who has had several media appearances and is very thorough and professional. Dunno if he is still active. Others are rather shoddy and seem to have issues of their own.

solomongursky - 08 Feb 2018 17:46:01 (#2 of 117)

That's Stinson Hunter who set fire to a school, i think.

Sunfish - 08 Feb 2018 17:50:12 (#3 of 117)

The police and social media companies seem unwilling or unable to engage with the use of these networks in this way. I’m no van-banger, but in the absence of anyone else taking responsibility for investigating this sort of stuff I’m struggling to see any reasons to object to this kind of targeted vigilantism.

GreenFuture - 08 Feb 2018 18:01:17 (#4 of 117)

Yes Sunfish, though some of the groups are distinctly van-bangy and that really doesn't help IMO, it leads to shoddyness of approach.

Home visits should definitely be out of the question IMO unless solicited.

There is huge risk to other's living there and turning up to meet at a designated place is a much clearer sign of intent.

One group appears to have taken one of their 15 year old daughters to stings and even used her as a decoy. It can make Jeremy Kyle look like Chekov play.

There appears to be less of this in the US, presumably because nobody knows who the fuck is armed to the teeth.

Shows like Steve Wilkos do lie-detectors on accused familiy molesters, though that's different in many ways if still rather tawdry in its vibe.

But I still sense Sunfish is right, not enough is done (or necessarily can be) by social media companies and the police. This kind of outcome seems inevitable in those circs but it also has a unique appeal to self-appointed van bangers. Some can be intimidating but thorough, some are just intimidating and cavalier.

GreenFuture - 08 Feb 2018 18:02:47 (#5 of 117)

very recent

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-tell-paedophile-hunters-what-they-need-for-courts-but-say-stop-what-youre-doing-36572782.html

AlanII - 08 Feb 2018 18:03:20 (#6 of 117)

This kind of outcome seems inevitable in those circs but it also has a unique appeal to self-appointed van bangers. Some can be intimidating but thorough, some are just intimidating and cavalier.

I kind of agree but, the inevitable van banging presence can only mean such stuff ends badly as far as I can see.

Bromio - 08 Feb 2018 18:12:21 (#7 of 117)

I think it's far too open to abuse and tragic error to be encouraged in any way. There are all kinds of vulnerable people out there who are easy to manipulate and to encourage to commit wrongdoing, many without the mental capacity to recognise such wrongdoing for what it is. People like Stinson Hunter are not far off from being as verminous as those they purport to expose.

Rendered - 08 Feb 2018 18:15:02 (#8 of 117)

Quite so.

browserbutton - 08 Feb 2018 18:18:44 (#9 of 117)

Motives and working practice may leave a lot to be desired

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/2117
880/84122039.jpg

GreenFuture - 08 Feb 2018 18:19:24 (#10 of 117)

While I'm no advocate for Stinson Hunter, believe it or not compared to some of those following in his wake, he is a model of professionalism.

I agree with Bromio but I also worry about how many genuine children are being groomed (or attempted groomed) and that many of the targets are almost certainly worthy of investigation despite the twatty nature of some of the groups.

There have been convictions and the police very often take the evidence seriously with arrests on camera.

Arjuna - 08 Feb 2018 18:20:30 (#11 of 117)

we should form a group to expose paedophile hunters

Sunfish - 08 Feb 2018 18:37:12 (#12 of 117)

There are all kinds of vulnerable people out there who are easy to manipulate and to encourage to commit wrongdoing

Well that’s a very good point, and while that sort of context would hopefully be taken into account when the authorities get involved I completely agree we wouldn’t want people being lynched, ffs, by vigilantes who recklessly entrap such types.

dottie30 - 08 Feb 2018 18:51:47 (#13 of 117)

Why do all these paedo hunters all appear to be a certain 'type'? And yes, if that sounds snobby it is. They are all tattooed 'Shameless' types.

Gotout - 08 Feb 2018 18:52:36 (#14 of 117)

From #5

Police tell 'paedophile hunters' what they need for courts - but say stop what you're doing





If the perpetrators are Masons would the police then walk away?

HarveyRabbit - 08 Feb 2018 18:54:35 (#15 of 117)

GF, do you really have to ask this question?

You, of all people, are surely well aware of all the underhand things the police can get up to if they take a dislike to you, including entrapment, being "selective" and "creative" about the evidence they present against you, installing agents provocateurs, undercover deceit and just straight forward violence and intimidation. And that's despite all the rules and chains of command and disciplinary procedures and everything else which is supposed to stop anything untoward happening.

How can you possibly think that giving "motivated" members of the public free reign to carry out their own operations, without any of those restrictions, or even a rudimentary DBS check, will result in only the the highest quality investigations and responsible, legal, behaviour?

FFS!

Sunfish - 08 Feb 2018 18:54:58 (#16 of 117)

I haven’t watched the link but you may well be right. Some of them could even be in favour of Brexit.

machiavelli - 08 Feb 2018 18:59:29 (#17 of 117)

Not keen. Wot Harvey said.

TableTopJoe - 08 Feb 2018 19:00:24 (#18 of 117)

Agreed. Not a good idea.

GreenFuture - 08 Feb 2018 19:04:28 (#19 of 117)

Harvey, I take a lot of your points. It may just be due to my peer groups but most police weirdness and set-ups I know of are to do with political activists.

Sure, they could be entrapped, but probably not in this way.

From what I can tell, the police handling of these cases seems quite mundane.

I cant help thinking that a person who is having disgusting chat with decoys could well be trying on same with real kids. If they turn up to meet such a person it shows intent. If it's done properly I can see it being a service and protection overall. That said, there's no need to upload the vid. I suspect ego, buzz and a constructed sense of purpose figure in.

There have probably been many conversations on lines of "'ere, look at this...that looks good...yeah let's do that"

In this case, the "hunters"strike me as more problematic than the police, but do they prefer BOTD over genuine groomers and paedophiles? Hard to say no isn't it?

Arjuna - 08 Feb 2018 19:04:51 (#20 of 117)

And yes, if that sounds snobby it is. They are all tattooed 'Shameless' types.

Most vigilantes are going to be hard cases.

Previous
|
Next
|
Top
|
Bottom
Check Subscriptions
|
Home » UK News