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Started by Agaliarept on Apr 24, 2018 8:31:04 AM
ID documents are required to collect a parcel or hire a car. We should take the same approach to voting

Minister for the Constitution Chloe Smith responds to claims voter ID checks will discriminate against ethnic minority communities

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/voter-id-documents-polling-electoral-fraud-chloe-smith-a8317341.html

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Agaliarept - 24 Apr 2018 08:31:09 (#1 of 878)

The British public deserves to have confidence in our democracy. Voter ID – where people are asked to provide identification to vote – is an important step to ensuring the public can have confidence in the systems that underpin our democratic system. We already ask that people prove who they are in order to collect a parcel from the post office or rent a car. We believe it is proportionate and reasonable to take the same approach to protect voting rights.

All eligible voters who have none of the required identification will be accommodated for by local authorities. A wide range of IDs will be accepted, from marriage certificates and passports to bus passes, depending on where you live.

If you have a ‘wide range’ of IDs acceptable, doesn’t that kind of negate any security benefit you get if the ID is really easy to fake? Like a marriage certificate or bus pass for example.

machiavelli - 24 Apr 2018 08:32:05 (#2 of 878)

ID documents are required to collect a parcel or hire a car. We should take the same approach to voting

No.

darkhorse - 24 Apr 2018 08:33:45 (#3 of 878)

How widespread is voter fraud?

I thought it was most in postal voting - where presumably no ID is required. Is it significant in polling station voting?

RosyLovelady - 24 Apr 2018 08:34:00 (#4 of 878)

The point, though, is to make it more difficult for the wrong kind of people to vote at all. It's a wheeze which has been borrowed for the USA, of course.

xDiggy - 24 Apr 2018 08:35:40 (#5 of 878)

How widespread is voter fraud?

Almost unheard of in the UK.

Agaliarept - 24 Apr 2018 08:35:45 (#6 of 878)

It's a wheeze which has been borrowed for the USA, of course.

And Canada...which never seems as bad as saying the USA.

RosyLovelady - 24 Apr 2018 08:36:56 (#7 of 878)

Our masters are not in thrall to Canada in quite the same way.

Agaliarept - 24 Apr 2018 08:39:18 (#8 of 878)

Of course.

Moschops - 24 Apr 2018 08:40:24 (#9 of 878)

It's difficult enough to get people to vote as it is

TinyMcOtter - 24 Apr 2018 08:43:14 (#10 of 878)

I'd accept the need for documented identification to vote, if MPs accept the need for them to serve a month in prison for every documented lie they tell.

machiavelli - 24 Apr 2018 08:46:07 (#11 of 878)

ID fanatics need to be stamped on with large boots.

Tadagee - 24 Apr 2018 08:49:15 (#12 of 878)

Articles like Smiths are as telling about what they don't say as what they do.

The rationale for introduction is to combat voter fraud. it's quite reasonable to expect therefore that some evidence of this is presented to explain why it's necessary. However, there is not even an anecdotal example. Using anecdotes to justify policy change without an quantitative base to support is bad enough, but she can't even do this.

So, if the given rationale has no basis, there must be another.

upgoerfive - 24 Apr 2018 08:52:01 (#13 of 878)

She wasn't always quite as keen on people's identity being confirmed:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10219812
/Ministers-veto-keeps-public-sector-jet-sets-77m-flight-bill-a-mystery.html

Agaliarept - 24 Apr 2018 08:52:12 (#14 of 878)

So, if the given rationale has no basis, there must be another.

Must there? Could it just be the rational isn't being evidenced because ministers these days are sloppy and they know the public will never hold them to account?

Being truly devious gives them a little too much credit for intelligence if you ask me.

RosyLovelady - 24 Apr 2018 08:54:55 (#15 of 878)

A government spokes on Channel 4 News (I think) said that the lack of pesky checks has enabled massive amounts of electoral fraud which by its very nature cannot be properly calculated. Oh yes.

Moschops - 24 Apr 2018 08:56:15 (#16 of 878)

On the other hand, I would have thought there would be a way to harness new technology to making voting easier and more secure

guigal - 24 Apr 2018 08:59:17 (#17 of 878)

ID fanatics need to be stamped on with large boots

That's fanaticism right there. A reliable and convenient piece of plastic, linked to a national population register, is obviously preferable to a wide range of IDs ...., from marriage certificates and passports to bus passes.

upgoerfive - 24 Apr 2018 09:03:29 (#18 of 878)

Quite. That way, you only have to forge the one thing.

quattrobhoy - 24 Apr 2018 09:04:44 (#19 of 878)

There is no evidence of widespread voter impersonation at polling stations. In fact, cases of ‘personation’, as the offence is termed in UK electoral law, are exceptionally rare. A total of 146 allegations of personation at polling stations were reported to UK police forces from 2010–16, a period that included two general elections and the EU referendum, each of which saw some 30 million votes cast. All but a handful of these 146 allegations resulted in no further action, generally because there was no evidence that an offence had been committed. Over the same time period, only 7 people were convicted as a result of investigations of personation at polling stations, 5 of whom were involved in a single case in Derby.

http://www.democraticaudit.com/2018/03/08/voter-id-at-british-polling-stations-learning-the-right-lessons-from-northern-ireland/

SinnerBoy - 24 Apr 2018 09:05:53 (#20 of 878)

You need to tell them your full name, date of birth, address and postcode. If you know all that and wish to do so, you could get some form of identification to "prove" it.

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