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Started by bossab2 on Mar 12, 2019 3:21:56 PM
Maxed Out 737s

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47536502

The UK joins the 737 Max suspension

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tasselhoff - 12 Mar 2019 15:45:25 (#1 of 41)

Max Headroom 0"

browserbutton - 12 Mar 2019 16:22:35 (#2 of 41)

Gogarty Airways -- "Take our Max to unheard-of adventurous places."

TigerPaws - 12 Mar 2019 17:04:42 (#3 of 41)

What caused the crash?

The automated anti-stall mechanism? Insufficiently trained/experienced pilots?

Pilots trained using the previous systems and not retrained well enough?

mememe - 12 Mar 2019 17:06:04 (#4 of 41)

They haven't said yet, but the suspicion is that it may have been the same as the Lion Air one.

fenderstrat - 12 Mar 2019 17:06:30 (#5 of 41)

I will predict "pilot error" followed by an investigation that shows systems were at fault. Usually a good bet.

TigerPaws - 12 Mar 2019 17:15:26 (#6 of 41)

I guess the truth lies somewhere between human and automated!

It's one of my fears dying In a plane crash.

If a ship begins to sink passengers get Into lifeboats but there' s no way out of a plane.

mememe - 12 Mar 2019 17:17:49 (#7 of 41)

I think in this case, if it's the same as the Lion Air crash, the blame can be levelled straight at Boeing.

mememe - 12 Mar 2019 17:18:24 (#8 of 41)

A company which, incidentally, is worth 10% less today than it was yesterday.

fenderstrat - 12 Mar 2019 17:19:14 (#9 of 41)

I guess the truth lies somewhere between human and automated!

If there's anything less that specific individual crime, it'll be systems. The job of designers (part of the system) is to make it easy to do the right thing.

TigerPaws - 12 Mar 2019 17:23:33 (#10 of 41)

But pilots need to know what the right things are.

solomongursky - 12 Mar 2019 17:26:28 (#11 of 41)

https://mg.co.za/article/2019-03-11-the-racist-reaction-to-the-ethiopian-airlines-crash-was-all-too-predictable

fenderstrat - 12 Mar 2019 17:31:07 (#12 of 41)

But pilots need to know what the right things are.

Yes. And?

mememe - 12 Mar 2019 17:32:02 (#13 of 41)

Ethiopian Airways is a fantastic airline. They have a very modern fleet, part of Star Alliance, etc etc.

mememe - 12 Mar 2019 17:33:45 (#14 of 41)

I did not know they are Africa's biggest airline, but they are.

FredDee - 12 Mar 2019 17:34:48 (#15 of 41)

Boeing buggered up the 737 because they only tinkered with the original rather than start from scratch :

https://slate.com/technology/2019/03/ethiopian-air-crash-where-did-boeing-go-wrong-with-the-737-max.html?via=homepage_taps_top

browserbutton - 12 Mar 2019 17:36:24 (#16 of 41)

Apparently Boeing added a new anti-stall software onto the Max and omitted to tell the pilots about it.

fenderstrat - 12 Mar 2019 17:37:34 (#17 of 41)

Disappointing if that's the case. You'd think the lessons from Kegworth might have been learned better.

mememe - 12 Mar 2019 17:38:50 (#18 of 41)

It's more than that though. This stall avoidance system (which is necessary because the engines are further forward apparently) appears to work from a single sensor. So if that sensor says there's a problem the plane assumes there's a problem. Normally they have redundancy and voting etc so if one of three sensors reports an issue and the other two don't, they'll tend to disregard the outlier.

tasselhoff - 12 Mar 2019 18:17:34 (#19 of 41)

Yup. I used to know an Airbus technician who explained how all main controls were in triplicate. This seems like a serious error.

Verdigris - 12 Mar 2019 20:51:42 (#20 of 41)

I am thinking back to the Hudson River ditching. Sully was a glider pilot and used the same style of flying to get the airliner down in one piece. I don't think he'd have got away with it in a fundamentally ill-balanced aircraft.

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