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Started by Arjuna on Mar 14, 2019 2:20:23 PM
Ex Paratrooper to face charges over Bloody Sunday killings

The director of public prosecutions for Northern Ireland, Stephen Herron, said:

“It has been concluded that there is sufficient available evidence to prosecute one former soldier, Soldier F, for the murder of James Wray and William McKinney, and for the attempted murders of Joseph Friel, Michael Quinn, Joe Mahon and Patrick O’Donnell. In respect of the other 18 suspects, including 16 former soldiers and two alleged Official IRA members, it has been concluded that the available evidence is insufficient to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/14/one-soldier-to-face-charges-over-bloody-sunday-killings

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Jacob_Richter - 14 Mar 2019 15:38:12 (#1 of 182)

Too little. Too late.

Agaliarept - 14 Mar 2019 15:41:12 (#2 of 182)

It's a toughy. A lot of my military friends and family are incredulous at this but correct me if I'm wrong, there are rules to how soldiers act in battle.

If they're proven to have broken those rules, they are prosecuted.

Not sure how you can kill a bunch of unarmed civilians and be surprised when someone is held to account for it.

thisonehasalittlehat - 14 Mar 2019 15:44:19 (#3 of 182)

How old is he?

Jacob_Richter - 14 Mar 2019 15:44:21 (#4 of 182)

there are rules to how soldiers act in battle.

There was no battle.

Agaliarept - 14 Mar 2019 15:45:17 (#5 of 182)

There was no battle.

Ok, rules to how soldiers behave when they open fire then.

How old is he?

Who?

Jacob_Richter - 14 Mar 2019 15:45:34 (#6 of 182)

How old is he?

Older than any of the victims will ever get to be, Roger.

FrankieTeardrop - 14 Mar 2019 15:48:08 (#7 of 182)

I think the UK could do with a bit of truth and reconciliation with regards to Ireland full stop. The crimes the UK has committed in Ireland (Bloody Sunday, Black and Tans) have never really been absorbed this side of the Irish Sea.

thisonehasalittlehat - 14 Mar 2019 15:49:26 (#8 of 182)

The soldier. It was 46 years ago. He must be mid sixties? Seventy?

FrankieTeardrop - 14 Mar 2019 15:50:19 (#9 of 182)

Well, quite, Jacob.

I mentioned to some random bloke on Facebook who'd said how the Germans owe us one for doing them a favour in preventing the promulgation of their global fascist empire, that it was a pity no one did Britain a similar favour in preventing the promulgation of its global empire.

This didn't go down well. A bit of truth and reconciliation regarding the British Empire would be a Good Thing.

HouseOfLametta - 14 Mar 2019 15:50:25 (#10 of 182)

Ok, rules to how soldiers behave when they open fire then.

Like “not on civilians on a British street”?

Jacob_Richter - 14 Mar 2019 15:50:29 (#11 of 182)

The underlying problem here, as I've said before, is that the GFA wasn't accompanied by a truth and reconciliation and amnesty process for all sides.

Such a process was too embarrassing for the IRA, who would have had to reveal where they buried victims and name the perpetrators of the Birmingham pub bombings, for example.

And it was too embarrassing for the UK govt because it would have had to come clean over 'shoot to kill', Bloody Sunday and collusion between the army and Loyalist death squads.

As a result, issues of injustice remain and simmer away.

Agaliarept - 14 Mar 2019 15:51:40 (#12 of 182)

Like “not on civilians on a British street”?

That's probably in the top 2 or 3.

HouseOfLametta - 14 Mar 2019 15:52:09 (#13 of 182)

Yeah.

dottie30 - 14 Mar 2019 15:59:49 (#14 of 182)

and collusion between the army and Loyalist death squads.



Sometimes that went too far for the Loyalists.

The UVF let the IRA into the Shankhill to finally rid themselves of Lenny Murphy who seemed immune to being caught for anything more serious than drunk and disorderly (well in fairness he did do a bit of time for a firearm offence) despite the rest of his gang being locked up for long stretches.

Sabacious - 14 Mar 2019 16:04:26 (#15 of 182)

He of the Shankhill Butchers?

dottie30 - 14 Mar 2019 16:08:13 (#16 of 182)

Yes.

Apparently the UVF got so pissed off he wasn't being pulled in by the police/army despite being completely out of control; they decided to get the IRA to finish him off. Even gave the provos his daily routine and directions to the hit.

SinnerBoy - 14 Mar 2019 16:50:59 (#17 of 182)

FrankieTeardrop -

I think the UK could do with a bit of truth and reconciliation with regards to Ireland full stop. The crimes the UK has committed in Ireland (Bloody Sunday, Black and Tans) have never really been absorbed this side of the Irish Sea.

There was a sort of fudge, where killers were let out out after a year or two of life sentences.

Anecdotal, of course, but an old mate of mine was in the Parachute Regiment. He joined in 1979. He did numerous tours of NI and was always curious as to why they, being the regiment they are, were ever deployed there.

He knew people involved in Bloody Sunday and the general consensus was that somebody opened fire by mistake, or in panic and others joined in, thinking that they were being shot at.

If that's actually true, a whole lot of heartache could have been avoided, by saying that at the time.

Arjuna - 14 Mar 2019 16:55:16 (#18 of 182)

I don't think it's too late, many people are still alive so its well worth pursuing. It may only be a single paratrooper on trial but the case could opens lot of doors that people would rather remained closed.

FrankieTeardrop - 14 Mar 2019 16:55:18 (#19 of 182)

"He knew people involved in Bloody Sunday and the general consensus was that somebody opened fire by mistake, or in panic and others joined in, thinking that they were being shot at."

Sounds more likely than a well developed plan to go out and shoot civilians. Still murder, though.

My partner's great uncle passed away in February, aged 103. He remembered hiding from the Black & Tans.

There's a whole load of stuff British people need to learn about, before reflexively defending the British Empire.

nemo75 - 14 Mar 2019 16:55:28 (#20 of 182)

I think that is a common story, no?

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