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Started by FleurDuMal on Aug 21, 2019 1:38:13 PM
HS2 may be scrapped

They're planning an independent review, to determine the viability:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/hs2-review-launched-over-whether-rail-project-should-proceed

If only they'd applied the same process to Brexit ....

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Jacob_Richter - 21 Aug 2019 13:52:30 (#1 of 418)

Electioneering.

HerrWalrus - 21 Aug 2019 14:09:53 (#2 of 418)

Surprised that Elon Musk hasn't popped up yet: "I'll build you an underground Hyperloop from London to Manchester. Just give me £60 billion to start tunnelling"

machiavelli - 21 Aug 2019 14:19:55 (#3 of 418)

There'll be a few white elephants won't survive Brexit, I'll wager.

Or basic services

dottie30 - 21 Aug 2019 14:21:07 (#4 of 418)

Perhaps they'll leave Crossrail half done too. The new Bond Street station will continue to have no floor and will stand as an eternal symbol of decline.

Tenesmus - 21 Aug 2019 14:21:28 (#5 of 418)

How will the turnip-pickers get around?

machiavelli - 21 Aug 2019 14:24:43 (#6 of 418)

Perhaps they'll leave Crossrail half done too.

Having done some of the survey work back in the 90s, I was astonished that the bloody thing isn't finished yet.

mikeshadow - 27 Aug 2019 02:08:08 (#7 of 418)

It seems that Parliament was misled over the true cost of HS2.

The government and HS2 knew that the new high speed railway was over budget and was probably behind schedule years ago, documents seen by the BBC show.

Crucially, the documents were written in 2016, before MPs had signed-off the first phase of the project.

It is evidence that both the public and Parliament were not given the full picture about the true cost.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49450297

indlovubill - 27 Aug 2019 06:58:54 (#8 of 418)

The government and HS2 knew that the new high speed railway was over budget and was probably behind schedule years ago, documents seen by the BBC show.



That's how everything gets built, had we abandoned every over-budget scheme we would still be in the age of the horse and cart.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_and_Manche
ster_Railway


The survey was presented to Parliament on 8 February 1825, but was shown to be inaccurate. Francis Giles suggested that putting the railway through Chat Moss was a serious error and the total cost of the line would be around £200,000 instead of the £40,000 quoted by Stephenson

bossab2 - 27 Aug 2019 07:12:39 (#9 of 418)

They haven't actually built anything for HS2:yet though have they?

indlovubill - 27 Aug 2019 07:19:52 (#10 of 418)

Nor had they built anything of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway before the estimated cost increased from £40,000 to £200,000. Fucking good job we didn't have the Internets in those days, bossab . Imagine all the clever cunts saying you can't use empty tar barrels to support a railway which is what they did at Chat Moss and guess what, the empty tar barrels are still there supporting the line to this day! Went on that line recently and as I looked out of the window marveling at the ingenuity of early 19th Century engineers every other fucker in the carriage was tapping away at the screens of their i-pads and mobile phones.

xDiggy - 27 Aug 2019 07:39:37 (#11 of 418)

I find the whole saga depressing. We can't do *anything* in this country now without spending more time and money than the Napoleonic Wars, mostly spent on armies of lawyers and consultants.

SinnerBoy - 27 Aug 2019 07:46:35 (#12 of 418)

mikeshadow -

i.It seems that Parliament was misled over the true cost of HS2.

Isn't it absolutely amazing, that Parliament is so often in the dark, about these sorts of things? Private Eye has been on about it for 15 years, or so.

Lots of members of the public seem to know, from the press.

I wonder whether MPs have a special implant, or something?

indlovubill - 27 Aug 2019 07:49:44 (#13 of 418)

It seems that Parliament was misled over the true cost of HS2.



You could say Parliament was misled over the true cost of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, possibly because Stephenson knew if they were told the true cost at the outset the thing would never get built.

HorstVogel - 27 Aug 2019 07:49:50 (#14 of 418)

the implant is called bung

HerrWalrus - 27 Aug 2019 08:03:23 (#15 of 418)

I find the whole saga depressing. We can't do *anything* in this country now without spending more time and money than the Napoleonic Wars, mostly spent on armies of lawyers and consultants.

It has to be down to legal issues and property purchases driving up costs. For comparison the high speed AVE line in Spain connecting Madrid, Barcelona and the French border, cost in the region of 9 billion euros - and this crosses longer distances and more difficult terrain (at times mountainous) than the HS2 route. I know that station construction will also cost more in the UK, but it's still baffling how much more expensive it turns out.

Cordelia - 27 Aug 2019 08:04:00 (#16 of 418)

They haven't actually built anything for HS2 yet though have they?

Depends how you define it. By me some roads have been closed permanently, businesses forced to close or move, local roads have been operating on rolling closures for over two years while new blocks of flats are built for the people being forced out of their homes and Thames Water is relocating miles of pipe to accommodate the project.

People's homes, schools, businesses and workplaces have been demolished, we've lost quite a lot of the little green space we had, lots of local employment from two huge hotels has gone (as have the hotels), one of London's more interesting streets is under threat, a couple of good pubs have gone. And we've lived with the noise, dust, dirt, buggered roads from heavy plant for two years so far - only another 10 to go...

indlovubill - 27 Aug 2019 08:06:21 (#17 of 418)

I know that station construction will also cost more in the UK, but it's still baffling how much more expensive it turns out.



Something to do with our country being much more densely populated in terms of people per square mile.

FleurDuMal - 27 Aug 2019 08:06:26 (#18 of 418)

Just speculation, but was any of the HS2 funding originally due to come from the EU?

If so, the current crisis could be another factor in the cancellation.

indlovubill - 27 Aug 2019 08:08:03 (#19 of 418)

Just speculation, but was any of the HS2 funding originally due to come from the EU?



Speculate no more

https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/news/uk-transport-infrastructure-chosen-eu-funding_en

Network: HS2 Phase 1 Ground

Applicant: Department for Transport

Max EU contribution: €39,198,517.00

EU share: 50.00%

FleurDuMal - 27 Aug 2019 08:11:18 (#20 of 418)

Thanks for that.

Why is this not being explained in MSM?

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