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Started by mikeshadow on Feb 13, 2020 2:30:40 AM
75th anniversary of VE Day - extended pub hours

Pubs, clubs and bars, which are licensed to trade until 11pm, will be allowed to open for an additional two hours, on Friday 8 May and Saturday 9 May from 11am until 1am the following morning, to mark the anniversary.

The order, laid in Parliament today, will also apply to premises licensed to provide entertainment such as music, dances, plays and films.

Commemorations and community events will be held across the country to remember the heroism of British, Commonwealth and Allied armed forces personnel and the contribution of ordinary citizens to the war effort.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pub-hours-extended-to-mark-75th-anniversary-of-ve-day

TheExcession - 13 Feb 2020 10:23:24 (#41 of 104)

There's a huge argument about the use of strategic bombing in WWII which esseentially runs:

- There were no precisions weapons in the modern sense. Dropping unguided munitions from thousands of feet up in the air is a very inaccurate way of trying to hit anything.

- There were no visual aids for use in poor visibility.

- Navigation aids developed during the war, but actual targetting relied on maps, photographs and the human eye. There were incidents of the wrong city being bombed entirely.

- The only way to reliably hit a target was to use area bombing.

- It was a useful tool to show the Soviets that the Allies were doing something to help them, before an invasion of Europe could be mounted.

- But there were those in the Allied command (Harris in particular) who became obsessed with the use of area bombing as a terror weapon or to wipe out the German workforce involved in the Wehrmacht's supply chains. Harris resisted pressure to target transport infrastructure and U-Boat pens, and also starved Coastal Command of resources as a result.

- The actual effect of area bombing has been much debated. German morale never broke as a result, and factories could often be quickly rebuilt. It has been argued that the dispersal of the Wehrmacht's supply chain to avoid bombing actually resulted in its own supply problems, and the diversion of huge resources into producing more and more AA guns, rather than artillery and anti-tank weaponry also helped the Allies in the ground war.

guigal - 13 Feb 2020 10:27:29 (#42 of 104)

Tadagee - 13 Feb 2020 09:54:11 ( #21 of 39) I clearly said it was those who directed the Dresden raid who should be criticised rather than the the aircrew

In encouraging us to celebrate war, the Boorish Johnson government, no doubt , includes all who participated and the heroes are Bomber Harris et al as well as those who carried out their orders.

But it's not a question of 'criticising' soldiers and airmen but protesting against the prostitution of their memory.

solomongursky - 13 Feb 2020 10:34:19 (#43 of 104)

President Frank-Walter Steinmeier will give a speech at Dresden's Palace of Culture, walking a fine line between remembering those killed in the Allied air raids on the eastern city and stressing Germany's responsibility for the war.

At 1630 GMT, he will join thousands of residents in forming a human chain of "peace and tolerance" as church bells ring out.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200213-germany-dresden-bombing-world-war-two-nazis-afd-commemoration?ref=tw

In order to downplay nazi crimes, the far-right are inflating the number of Dresden victims.

guigal - 13 Feb 2020 10:41:34 (#44 of 104)

#43

From your link.

Dresden bombing survivor Ursula Elsner, who was 14 when her mother dragged her to safety past burning buildings, told Spiegel she was tired of the anniversary being misused for political gain.

The 89-year-old wants the occasion to serve as a warning against war.

That is the position I am advocating.

solomongursky - 13 Feb 2020 11:08:12 (#45 of 104)

A poor chap found his burned family and dog and lost his mind so arranged them for a last family photo.

Tadagee - 13 Feb 2020 11:11:00 (#46 of 104)

In encouraging us to celebrate war, the Boorish Johnson government, no doubt , includes all who participated and the heroes are Bomber Harris et al as well as those who carried out their orders.

Well yes, it's a meaningless exercise in cynical post Brexit jingoism. It is possible to believe this and not sneer at allied aircrew.

FrankieTeardrop - 13 Feb 2020 11:25:00 (#47 of 104)

With the added bonus of destroying archives that might have raised questions about the legitimacy of the Saxe Coburgs.


Don't need archives for that. The House of Windsor has been complicit in covering up the activities of its paedo-prince - thus demonstrating it isn't a fit and proper entity to be head of our state

solomongursky - 13 Feb 2020 11:26:01 (#48 of 104)

Its.

GyratingTrampoline - 13 Feb 2020 11:34:39 (#49 of 104)

It's a great conspiracy theory though. I hope there's a batshit website someone can link to that promotes the idea

FrankieTeardrop - 13 Feb 2020 11:59:09 (#50 of 104)

What is?

TheExcession - 13 Feb 2020 11:59:17 (#51 of 104)

I bet it's why they bumped off Diana!!!!!1111

FrankieTeardrop - 13 Feb 2020 11:59:45 (#52 of 104)

Here you go, here's an American news anchor talking about it happening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjwf9F_v5cI

SinnerBoy - 13 Feb 2020 14:13:22 (#53 of 104)

GyratingTrampoline

It's a great conspiracy theory though. I hope there's a batshit website someone can link to that promotes the idea

Bevernbridge will be along soon, with the link.

AlanII - 13 Feb 2020 14:21:00 (#54 of 104)

From memory, Dresden was a massive communications hub but, that part was bombed very early on in the bombing. At that point, it would've been useful to shift attention to other ares, however, Harris was intent on recreating firestorms and terrorising the civilian population in what was basically revenge. I vaguely remember that even Churchill was not a great fan of this move.

guigal - 13 Feb 2020 14:41:21 (#55 of 104)

Tadagee - 13 Feb 2020 11:11:00 ( #46 of 54) Well yes, it's a meaningless exercise in cynical post Brexit jingoism. It is possible to believe this and not sneer at allied aircrew.

Even with your sanctimonious self-importance, it should be possible to recognise that deprecating the prostitution of the memory of the dead for nationalistic purposes, is not necessarily to be construed as 'sneering' at the dead.

Agaliarept - 13 Feb 2020 15:15:08 (#56 of 104)

Sorry for DM link but interview from Breakfast TV this morning with British POW Victor Gregg who was in Dresden during the bombing.

Pretty harrowing stuff.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7999149/Dresden-bombing-survivor-Victor-Gregg-100-Good-Morning-Britain-75th-anniversary.html

Tadagee - 13 Feb 2020 15:32:34 (#57 of 104)

Even with your sanctimonious self-importance

And with that, Alainis exploded.

guigal - 13 Feb 2020 15:59:06 (#58 of 104)

#57

Who's your exploding Alainis ?

quattrobhoy - 13 Feb 2020 16:02:58 (#59 of 104)

Vonnegut’s Personal Experience in Dresden was the inspiration for Slaughterhouse-Five

https://dresdenandvonnegut.wordpress.com/vonneguti
ndresden/

Tadagee - 13 Feb 2020 16:35:40 (#60 of 104)

Alanis Morisette old fruit. Of 'Isn't it Ironic' fame. Your referring to someone else as having 'sanctimonious self-importance' sadly resulted in an 'Isn't it ironic' overload with catastrophic results.

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