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Started by harryhaller on Sep 24, 2020 8:28:10 PM
Gib ERECTS border with UK, not Spain.
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If the Treaty of Utrecht heralded the birth of the British Empire, Brexit increasingly looks like it will drive the last nails into its coffin.

scottscott - 25 Sep 2020 17:25:53 (#7 of 26)

Yup. Good points all.

FGBFGB - 25 Sep 2020 18:19:45 (#8 of 26)

But.. Treaty of Utrecht. Treaties are inviolable. International law and all that.

AdonisBlue - 25 Sep 2020 18:22:00 (#9 of 26)

Yeah you don't wanna upset the EU Army.

mikeshadow - 25 Sep 2020 18:59:05 (#10 of 26)

The thread header and tweets are fake news from Irish tweeters.

harryhaller - 25 Sep 2020 19:41:01 (#11 of 26)

No, what you've posted is government (Whitehall) waffle.

Gib has to deal with the realities on the ground. (see Kent...)

harryhaller - 25 Sep 2020 19:55:03 (#12 of 26)

Meeting on Future Relationship - 652/2020

September 23, 2020

The Chief Minister Fabian Picardo and the Deputy Chief Minister Dr Joseph Garcia are in Madrid today for the continuing technical negotiations on Gibraltar’s future relationship with the European Union. The Attorney General Michael Llamas completes the Gibraltar delegation.

mikeshadow - 25 Sep 2020 19:55:08 (#13 of 26)

No, what you've posted is government (Whitehall) waffle.

No. What I’ve linked to is the Gibraltar government.

harryhaller - 25 Sep 2020 19:55:33 (#14 of 26)

me too.

browserbutton - 25 Sep 2020 19:56:05 (#15 of 26)

Gibraltar is a dump though. Like Slough-On-The-Rocks.

harryhaller - 25 Sep 2020 20:05:19 (#16 of 26)

If you read the PDF linked to in the Gib Gov. page posted by MS, it becomes clear that the main problem for Gib is the matter of imports from the UK, not its own relationship with Spain. That, as it points out, does not seem to change.

Under Franco, things between Gib and Spain were quite different.

But since then the whole relationship between Spain and Gib has changed of course, regardless of EU matters.

Nothing to stop the pull of gravity.

SinnerBoy - 25 Sep 2020 20:46:12 (#17 of 26)

Slough on the Rocks:

Blue Curacao, Tia Maria, ground white pepper, cream, lime juice and Drambuie. With ice cubes.

harryhaller - 25 Sep 2020 21:31:47 (#18 of 26)


Existing Position.

Gibraltar, unlike the UK, has never formed part of the EU Customs Union and it does not form part of the customs territory of the EU. Gibraltar is therefore already treated as a third country for the purposes of all trade in goods with the EU. It is for this reason that there are customs controls carried out on the movement of goods between Gibraltar and Spain and other parts of the EU Customs Union. At the land border, these controls are carried out by the Spanish Customs Authorities, in accordance with relevant EU customs legislation laying down general rules and procedures applicable to goods taken out of and into the customs territory of the EU.

The fact that there may be no agreement with respect to Gibraltar’s future relationship with the EU by 31 December 2020 would not alter the EU legal framework governing customs controls on goods traded between Gibraltar and the EU Customs Union.

This would mean the following with respect to the products outlined below:

1. Imports of products originating in the EU.

There will be no change to the customs processes applied to the importation of products originating in the EU Customs Union. This includes products originating in Spain or other parts of the EU Customs Territory. This applies equally to all products including products of animal origin, food of non-animal origin, plants and plant products and medicinal products.

2. Imports of products originating in third countries.

Once the UK leaves the EU Customs Union on 31 December 2020, goods imported into Gibraltar from the UK would be treated as goods originating in a third country. The application of EU customs legislation would therefore change with respect to certain UK goods brought to Gibraltar via the customs territory of the EU.

Imports of products of animal origin originating in the UK, or other third countries, and brought to Gibraltar after transiting the customs territory of the EU.

With respect to products of animal origin originating in third countries, EU law stipulates that for the transit to take place the transit must previously be authorised at the “border control post” (or “BCP”) where the consignment first arrives in the EU Customs Territory. For example, this would mean that for relevant products passing from the UK to France, en route to Gibraltar via Spain, those products would first have to enter French territory via a BCP. For the products to then leave the EU Customs Territory from Spain to Gibraltar, EU law would require those products to also exit Spanish territory via a BCP.


Since the border at La Linea de la Concepcion is not currently designated as a BCP, this would mean that products of animal origin, originating in the UK or any other third country, would have to be cleared for exportation to Gibraltar at another exit point that is designated as a BCP. The nearest BCP is in the Port of Algeciras.

There are on-going negotiations with a number of ferry operators that are interested in providing a regular daily service from Algeciras to Gibraltar for this specific purpose.

One ferry already successfully carried out a trial run on 28 October 2019. The intention is that this ferry would operate a triangular route between Gibraltar, Algeciras and Tangier. This would allow for the use of the Algeciras BCP. The different ferry options that have been explored involve operations from Morocco and Algeciras. The last resort, in so far as the products affected are concerned, would be for them to be transported directly to Gibraltar from the UK without transiting the customs territory of the EU.


Thus, Brexit means the erection of a border between the UK and Gib, unless, of course, those goods went directly to Gib via sea or air ( I suppose ). Nothing has changed with regard to trade with the EU.

bossab2 - 26 Sep 2020 12:53:09 (#19 of 26)

I'm surprised they dont just join Spain properly.

carterbrandon - 26 Sep 2020 13:11:27 (#20 of 26)

It's not as if gammony enclaves are unheard of in Spain proper.

bailliegillies - 26 Sep 2020 13:53:00 (#21 of 26)

I'm surprised they dont just join Spain properly.

Knowing the tories they'll probably try and sell it to Spain because the country will be totally broke by the time of the next election, at this rate.

harryhaller - 26 Sep 2020 14:11:54 (#22 of 26)

On 18 October 2018, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez announced that he had reached an agreement with Britain, declaring that a special protocol about Gibraltar was being prepared along with the UK Government and was hopeful to reach a good agreement for both parties. However, on 19 November 2018, the Spanish Government threatened not to support the Brexit Agreement Draft because they say that an article was added without their consent that could be misunderstood and leave Spain without a say over Gibraltar. On 22 November 2018, PM Sánchez and PM May discussed the problem but the Spanish PM declared that "our positions remain far away. My Government will always defend the interests of Spain. If there are no changes, we will veto Brexit." On 24 November 2018, Spain agreed not to veto the Brexit deal in exchange for a tripartite statement of the European Commission President and the European Council President, the UK Government and the EU Member States saying that no deal would be reached about Gibraltar without Spain's consent. The European statement also declared that the EU does not consider Gibraltar to be part of the United Kingdom.

Bund02 - 27 Sep 2020 08:56:40 (#23 of 26)

EU does not consider Gibraltar to be part of the United Kingdom.

They'd be in agreement with the UK and with Gibraltar, then.

nemo75 - 27 Sep 2020 09:00:38 (#24 of 26)

Heh. Brilliant bit of quoting there.

RosyLovelady - 29 Sep 2020 11:45:39 (#25 of 26)

The MEP for the Cornwall region doubles as the MEP for Gibraltar.

HerrWalrus - 29 Sep 2020 15:48:37 (#26 of 26)

The Smuggler-In-Chief.

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