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Started by RhodaDendron on Jan 4, 2021 3:45:38 PM
Consequences of an independent Scotland

For example: Ireland gives Irish nationality to anyone with one Irish grandparent. It would be reasonable to expect Scotland would do the same. With 300 years of common history there must be millions of English people with at least one Scottish grandparent. Possible more than the entire population of Scotland. If Scotland gets into the EU that means a large number of people would probably get double nationality and EU citizenship.David Cameron for example.

I wonder how many people there are with one Scottish grandparent?

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ReverendBlueJeans - 04 Jan 2021 15:50:07 (#1 of 97)

There are around 500,000 English-born folk in Scotland. More would be very welcome.

The two most active independence campaigners in my street are English-born.

It's really not an issue.

Of course, I would hope that on principle, any Union-Jack-Waving Tory, Labourite, Graun or Daily Mail or Torygraph journo would refrain from making any such application.

There may also be the benefit of those chinless young Tory MSPs, some of their Scottish Labour pals, and lots of Rangers, Orange and SDL types fleeing the country.

Bring it on.

RhodaDendron - 04 Jan 2021 15:57:50 (#2 of 97)

They wouldn't need to flee the country though would they? One Scottish granny and they'd get EU citizenship.

hailesaladdie - 04 Jan 2021 16:06:39 (#3 of 97)

On the otherside, perhaps I'd be obliged to apply for rUK "settled status" to continue living in England.

Or, given the cunti di tutti cunti currently in power, get shipped off to a ghetto in Corby.

RhodaDendron - 04 Jan 2021 16:40:00 (#4 of 97)

Not if things were done as in Ireland. The Common Travel Area (CTA) is a long-standing arrangement between the UK, the Crown Dependencies (Bailiwick of Jersey, Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Isle of Man) and Ireland that pre-dates both British and Irish membership of the EU and is not dependent on it.

Under the CTA, British and Irish citizens can move freely and reside in either jurisdiction and enjoy associated rights and privileges, including the right to work, study and vote in certain elections, as well as to access social welfare benefits and health services.

ChankNolen - 04 Jan 2021 17:12:56 (#5 of 97)

'There may also be the benefit of those chinless young Tory MSPs, some of their Scottish Labour pals, and lots of Rangers, Orange and SDL types fleeing the country'

Cuddly, warm-hearted civic nationalism.

ChankNolen - 04 Jan 2021 17:15:46 (#6 of 97)

Incidentally, I think this touches on one of the potential downsides of independence: without the Westminster 'other' to unite against, one wonders whether the significant cleavages within Scottish society would reappear with renewed force. I say this as someone who, when I lived in Scotland, made the mistake of inviting my Catholic and Wee Free neighbours to the same social gathering.

moto748 - 04 Jan 2021 17:20:01 (#7 of 97)

Are 'the significant cleavages within Scottish society' greater than those in English society, or smaller?

AdonisBlue - 04 Jan 2021 17:23:19 (#8 of 97)

RBJ, would we really be 'very welcome'? I've not felt very welcome on several occasions in Glasgow and Edinburgh over the last few years. Open anti-english abuse is quite common... Like an entire bus chanting 'if you hate the fucking English clap your hands' after three English people got on on millennial new years eve for example.

A friend who lived in Edinburgh was hospitalised twice, beaten to a pulp for having an English accent. He left as he didn't want his kids to endure the same at school.

I recognise you are not the type to do this , but there are plenty who are. Even many of those who don't hate the fucking English consider it 'just a laugh' as our Scottish mates with us on new year's Eve did in the bus. It didn't feel funny to us English, it felt terrifying.

hailesaladdie - 04 Jan 2021 17:32:55 (#9 of 97)

> one wonders whether the significant cleavages within Scottish society would reappear with renewed force

<drops monocle>

ChankNolen - 04 Jan 2021 17:36:27 (#10 of 97)

'Are 'the significant cleavages within Scottish society' greater than those in English society, or smaller?'

I think they are different in kind. Because Scotland hasn't experienced anything like the level of mass immigration that England has, my sense is that community tensions of that kind are at low to non-existent.

But I think there is low-level hostility to English incomers, which as AB notes, occasionally explodes into something worse. I got more earache for being English in Scotland than for being black.

The religious fault-line really has no parallel in England. I occasionally get informed that its all gone away in Scotland now, which is invariably followed by the latest sectarian outburst at the footer. My experience in the Far North was that it was definitely still a real thing, even if more latent than it might have been a generation ago.

Shadrack22 - 04 Jan 2021 17:43:11 (#11 of 97)

I've not felt very welcome on several occasions in Glasgow and Edinburgh over the last few years.

How typical is this though? My sister has lived in Scotland since 1978. She’s never had any trouble.

SinnerBoy - 04 Jan 2021 18:00:29 (#12 of 97)

The Scots view us as cousins, Shadders. I once went into an Aberdeen Casual pub and a guy gave me a friendly warning to finish up and fuck off.

We got chatting about punk bands, he got me a pint. Eventually, someone gave some abuse for being English and my new best mate spat,

"He's no English, he's a fucking Geordie!"

Cue cheers.

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SinnerBoy - 04 Jan 2021 18:02:48 (#14 of 97)

It's all about your attitude, goldfinch. When I lived there, I got loads of piss taking and just played stooge. All good natured.

machiavelli - 04 Jan 2021 18:03:19 (#15 of 97)

I had "English pig!" shouted once. Fine, apart from that.

hailesaladdie - 04 Jan 2021 18:04:19 (#16 of 97)

> The Scots view us as cousins, Shadders.

Cumbrians too. But that's mostly because the accent's too hard to distinguish.

RhodaDendron - 04 Jan 2021 18:20:34 (#17 of 97)

My point was more that English people who could dig up a Scottish granny would sometime in the future get an EU passport - they wouldn't need to actually move to Glasgow - lovely place as it is. I live in Tradeston.

PS I don't mean physically dig up a Scottish granny. That would be wrong and is generally frowned upon north of the border.

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goldfinch - 04 Jan 2021 18:34:15 (#19 of 97)

dig up a Scottish granny

Alas, my Scottish granny wasn't born there. I was though, so will probably get a passport, but I'm mostly not Scottish and have an English accent even though I'm mostly not English either. There must be lots like me.

popstar7 - 04 Jan 2021 18:52:55 (#20 of 97)

There's been an increase in the number of first-time applications for Irish passports from people born in GB since 2015. About 150k in total.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/30/b
rexit-730000-britons-acquired-non-uk-eu-irish-passports-since-2016


There's no firm figure on how many GB citizens are entitled to Irish citizenship by having an Irish-born parent/grandparent but something around 7 million seems reasonable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37246769

Conclusion: being entitled to Irish/EU citizenship hasn't persuaded very many eligible GB-born people to actually do anything about it. Can't see any reason to think Scottish independence would work out differently.

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