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Started by DesEsseintes on Oct 11, 2021 2:00:23 PM
Reflections on the Election in France

France and Britain.

Set off from the Presidential Election and see where we get to.

An adventure, a dérive.

https://www.humanite.fr/etiquettes/presidentielle-2022

https://www.liberation.fr/dossier/election-presidentielle-2022/

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DesEsseintes - 11 Oct 2021 14:01:20 (#1 of 108)

Macron, président des riches : l’heure des comptes

it says on the front page of today's Libé

it seems unlikely there has ever been a président des pauvres

the cult of the supreme macron is not happy however

Delighted_User - 11 Oct 2021 14:03:36 (#2 of 108)

10 points.

DesEsseintes - 11 Oct 2021 14:05:01 (#3 of 108)

10 points for me too - for guessing who would post 10 points.

DesEsseintes - 11 Oct 2021 19:40:36 (#4 of 108)

Also in there

Féminisme : avec Emmanuel Macron, la République en mecs

in other news been and got my flu jab this afternoon

browserbutton - 11 Oct 2021 19:46:58 (#5 of 108)

Macron may be a strutting Napoleon but at least he is not Le Pen.

xDiggy - 11 Oct 2021 19:50:45 (#6 of 108)

He may be a bit of a cock, but he's not either of these fighting specimens:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/24/hard-left-and-far-right-presidential-candidates-meet-in-french-tv-cockfight

DesEsseintes - 11 Oct 2021 19:54:07 (#7 of 108)

Mélenchon is really not 'hard left' whatever the Guardian might say

xDiggy - 11 Oct 2021 19:56:01 (#8 of 108)

I'm wondering what your definition of 'hard left' would be.

DesEsseintes - 11 Oct 2021 20:00:32 (#9 of 108)

If by that they mean 'far left', somewhere way to the left of France Insoumise which is just an ordinary democratic socialist party.

machiavelli - 11 Oct 2021 20:05:47 (#10 of 108)

In BlairWorld, hard left is not liking a newly privitised part of the state beating you over head with Mickey mouse charges and routing you through a never-ending automated call system. It's loving your subjection.

xDiggy - 11 Oct 2021 20:28:50 (#11 of 108)

What I understand of Melenchon's politics is that they represent kind of militant luddism best exemplified in the UK by the late, grate Bob Crow.

machiavelli - 11 Oct 2021 20:32:41 (#12 of 108)

Then I guess France is safe from his depradations.

xDiggy - 11 Oct 2021 20:39:52 (#13 of 108)

As for Zemmour, well. I guess Concerns need to be Listened To.

mingmong - 11 Oct 2021 20:46:43 (#14 of 108)

In my book

far left = state control of everything. Totalitarian. SAFC

hard left = nationalisation as an end in itself, steeply progressive taxation, a willingness to face accusations of class hatred in pursuit of social justice

centre left = progressive taxation, public spending, protection of minorities, capitalism with regulatory control and redistribution

centrism = limited progressive taxation, reluctant regulation, emphasis on equality and diversity but less interest in social/economic justice

centre-right = rhetorical opposition to tax and spend, instinctive preference for private over state-run solutions, nominal support for "equality of opportunity", but no opposition to a state of affairs where the rich get richer while wages of the poor stagnate in real terms.

DesEsseintes - 11 Oct 2021 20:57:43 (#15 of 108)

if you must

ultra left - anarchists

far left - communists

left - socialists

centre - nobody

right - liberals

far right - conservatives

ultra right - fascists

mingmong - 11 Oct 2021 21:06:37 (#16 of 108)

I'm becoming more sympathetic to anarchism these days. I used to write it off as a kind of simplistic adolescent creed, which in some of its forms (eg libertarianism) it certainly is.

But in its most fundamental sense, it represents nothing more than an instinctive distrust towards the concentrations of power. Even the most cursory glance at any authoritarian regime (the PRC being the largest and most egregious example in our times) confirms the legitimacy of this suspicion

AdonisBlue - 11 Oct 2021 22:27:30 (#17 of 108)

Come join my anarcho-syndicalist collective man.

Used to love the idea but as I've aged it's another great idea, wrong species, sadly.

tasselhoff - 11 Oct 2021 22:47:21 (#18 of 108)

Mélenchon is really not 'hard left' whatever the Guardian might say

He's an unpleasant little turd.

DesEsseintes - 11 Oct 2021 23:20:58 (#19 of 108)

That's another matter.

It's not quite as clear cut as #15 of course.

I would call Lutte Ouvrière and the Nouveau Parti Anticapitaliste far left and France Insoumise and the PCF left, for example.

And the PS is another matter again.

chacqueschirac - 11 Oct 2021 23:32:49 (#20 of 108)

He's an unpleasant little turd.



You may say the same about Macron.

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