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Started by Arjuna on 12-Aug-2017 13:42:59
White Nationalists rally round statues of notorious slave owners

Hundreds of US white nationalists have rallied at the University of Virginia, protesting against plans to remove a statue of a confederate general

The protesters are angered at the planned removal of a statue of General Robert E Lee from Charlottesville. Lee commanded forces of the pro-slavery Confederacy in the US Civil War



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/us/white-nationalists-rally-charlottesville-virginia.html

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Arjuna - 12 Aug 2017 13:43:48 (#1 of 562)

The rally was met by a smaller group of counter protesters who had surrounded the university's status of Thomas Jefferson, holding a banner that read "VA Students Act Against White Supremacy".

wasn't Jefferson a white supremicist?

Samsonite - 12 Aug 2017 13:51:40 (#2 of 562)

he was one of the good slavers

Arjuna - 12 Aug 2017 14:00:14 (#3 of 562)

Didn't he own lots more than Lee?

how does this work?

TommyDGNR8 - 12 Aug 2017 14:02:29 (#4 of 562)

It's like Christianity - as long as you say you're sorry, you can do whatever the fuck you like.

SharkPatoo - 12 Aug 2017 14:31:24 (#5 of 562)

I don't like the alt-right but I also don't like tearing down statues and white-washing history.

Arjuna - 12 Aug 2017 14:38:47 (#6 of 562)

I think they are being sold rather than torn down

Macpaddy - 12 Aug 2017 14:49:14 (#7 of 562)

Trump wants them for The Whitehouse lawn.

Macpaddy - 12 Aug 2017 14:53:59 (#8 of 562)

I agree with SharkPatoo over this. It's the same with those who want all traces of connection with the slave trade removed from Bristol. I believe it offended 10 people living in Bath and a band who should be flattered to be called " who?" when their name is mentioned.

Gotout - 12 Aug 2017 15:02:46 (#9 of 562)

Some people seem to think that by removing all traces of connection with the slave trade then everything will be all right. You can't change history so keep the traces and learn from them so that it never happens again.

Macpaddy - 12 Aug 2017 15:04:54 (#10 of 562)

Exactly. How can we learn from history if we erase all memory of it?

Arjuna - 12 Aug 2017 15:08:26 (#11 of 562)

It's the same with those who want all traces of connection with the slave trade removed from Bristol

Its actually a bit different as some statues of slave owners aren't being removed. Jefferson is OK but Lee is bad.

Intowntonight - 12 Aug 2017 15:09:10 (#12 of 562)



<<You can't change history so keep the traces and learn from them so that it never happens again>>

Which is usually the next step to denying it ever happened.

Jacob_Richter - 12 Aug 2017 15:45:04 (#13 of 562)

But in this case, the proposal is that the statue of Lee represents a continuing political trend in the USA of support for white supremacism and, for that reason, should be removed.

The main issue here, as far as I can see, isn't the inconsistencies of American history, is that the counter-demo was attacked by a torch wielding mob of neo-Nazis who seem to have largely got away with it.

SharkPatoo - 12 Aug 2017 15:52:07 (#14 of 562)

But in this case, the proposal is that the statue of Lee represents a continuing political trend in the USA of support for white supremacism and, for that reason, should be removed.

That will make the white supremacists feel jolly important.

MestangloMan - 12 Aug 2017 15:52:22 (#15 of 562)

http://shanghaiist.com/2017/08/11/guan-yu-covered-indonesia.php

A more recent statue of a Chinese god has Muslims in Indonesia a bit upset. Some local authorities have taken to covering it up, but the Muslim activists want the government to step in and remove it. One such activist said it would be ok inside the religious center, but not outside.

These kinds of issues never seem to go away. Statues of the founder of the KGB were destroyed during the post-Soviet era, but Lenin remains in his tomb for the world to see. Some local Black activists in Dallas wanted a segregated drinking fountain to remain on public display in a downtown court building. The Whites wanted it removed. This was some 20 years ago or more. The main issue becomes keeping violence to a minimum in all these situations.

Intowntonight - 12 Aug 2017 16:00:05 (#16 of 562)

Hi Mestanglo:

we need to be reminded from time to time what a disgusting lot we can be.

MestangloMan - 12 Aug 2017 16:05:06 (#17 of 562)

Instead, so far, the giant statue has attracted only outrage from the locals of Tuban, who are predominately Muslim. Online, many argued that the statue was an affront to Islam and the local people of Indonesia, claiming that it showed how the Chinese were in fact in control of Indonesia's government. Others claimed that the statue was built on public land and without the proper building permits -- despite the fact that the statue was entirely built on land owned by the temple.



From the article in #15. And, yes, some of our early Presidents owned slaves, including one Tommy Jefferson, with the Sally Hemings heritage attached to his legacy.

we need to be reminded from time to time what a disgusting lot we can be.

Heh. Indeed, ItT. I'll let the thread get on with its task.

machiavelli - 12 Aug 2017 16:19:45 (#18 of 562)

Totemism entails cheap and easy outrage. A statue comes down - one side can feel all pleased with themselves and the other whine that they are the new oppressed.

Arjuna - 12 Aug 2017 16:27:06 (#19 of 562)

the proposal is that the statue of Lee represents a continuing political trend in the USA of support for white supremacism and, for that reason, should be removed

so what about other statues of slaveowners? or slaveowners on the currency? Even the capital is named after a white supremicist.

1OffManMental - 12 Aug 2017 16:32:47 (#20 of 562)

Clearly both sides are as bad as each other.

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