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Started by MestangloMan on Oct 30, 2018 10:34:55 AM
Should Robert Bowers get the Death Penalty?

I, along with two prominent Rabbis, say Yes. What is your verdict?

A USA folder survey from HECK!

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Delighted_User - 30 Oct 2018 10:37:04 (#1 of 463)

My verdict: your obsessions highlight the dangers of too much drink and drugs on a mind that perhaps was never all that much.

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 10:37:51 (#2 of 463)

OK, that is a NO.

pranzingfrogg - 30 Oct 2018 10:43:12 (#3 of 463)

Not sure what it achieves other than satisfying some people’s desire for a vicarious revenge. Will it stop other shootings? The people who go in for shooting sprees often die at their own hand or are shot by the police, and they presumably know that risk, so why would the possibility of execution stop them? Letting him rot in jail and forgetting he ever existed is fine. Remember his victims and forget him

Stop sociopaths and obsessive getting hold of guns in the first place.

RosyLovelady - 30 Oct 2018 10:45:23 (#4 of 463)

I think the argument runs that if only all the people had armed themselves before going to pray, no one would have been killed. Something like that, anyway.

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 10:45:46 (#5 of 463)

Pranzing, I appreciate anyone trying to be reasonable on this question, but it's also about a certain form of hatred, as old almost as Western Civilization. It's not really the Gun thread.

I will take it as a No, for sure, and consider the desire for reason when the Ds and many Rs are anything but, add the equivalent across the Pond, island or continent. Ta.

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 10:47:12 (#6 of 463)

Rosy, there is a definitely a security question being toyed with relative to this issue and places of worship. Points of view all over the map, of course, but, yes, plenty think security is in order.

cozzer - 30 Oct 2018 10:47:46 (#7 of 463)

Weren't three armed policemen shot in this attack? So that argument is bullshit.

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 10:48:36 (#8 of 463)

Security is bullshit? Have you explained this to the EU reps, coz?

SheikYerbouti - 30 Oct 2018 10:52:55 (#9 of 463)

My verdic: Lets go back to talking about Ritchie Blackmore.

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 10:54:59 (#10 of 463)

OK, er, for the record. This Rabbi is big in America. The Rabbi to Michael Jackson and Roseann Barr, etc. He's for the DP in this case, plus he wants the "politicization" to stop, etc. Good luck with that, good Rabbi.

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Politicizing-the-massacre-of-11-Pittsburgh-Jews-must-stop-570646

As to Mr. Blackmore, in due time, Sheik. In due time. I will never lose my perspective re: Music because of the nastiness of human politics.

Nevah Again, as they say!

Agaliarept - 30 Oct 2018 10:55:56 (#11 of 463)

I, along with two prominent Rabbis, say Yes. What is your verdict?

I'm not against the DP and don't think it is an effective deterrent for this type of crime but fuck him.

Yes for me too.

cozzer - 30 Oct 2018 10:56:29 (#12 of 463)

Security is bullshit?

Yes.

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 10:57:27 (#13 of 463)

Thanks, Agaliarept. I will be curious to see how this proceeds through the various courts.

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 11:00:20 (#14 of 463)

Yes.

Ok, fair enough. I don't think the cops were there prior to the killings. They were called in.

But, yes, some were wounded. Security is not beanbag, which is what is often said about politics in the USA. Still fluid on getting all the facts, btw. I first heard about it from my wife at my mom's 93rd birthday celebration. We had been at a casino, and the only reality one sees there is when one loses too much cash.

Agaliarept - 30 Oct 2018 11:02:26 (#15 of 463)

Thanks, Agaliarept. I will be curious to see how this proceeds through the various courts.

Keep us posted. It probably will slide down the news rankings here pretty quickly. I hear Princess Meghan has a new pair of shoes!

Just joking, I LOVE the new princess!

MestangloMan - 30 Oct 2018 11:09:25 (#16 of 463)

Well, #15, my fave Bibble passage is what I now call Dude-er-onomy 30:19, where Moses tells the Children of Israel to choose life. In this instance with no modern political baggage. Good luck to zee Royal Couple.



Plus you are correct, Agaliarept, that this story will be replaced by something else. But it has some much older baggage, sadly.

Brunothecat - 30 Oct 2018 11:10:35 (#17 of 463)

I favour keeping these people locked up for the rest of their lives rather than allowing them to be martyrs to a cause. Similarly the likes of Bin Laden. Being publicly exposed as sick-in-the-head filth in court then just put in a hole and left to rot seems to me as dignified as they deserve.

dottie30 - 30 Oct 2018 11:10:48 (#18 of 463)

The answer for me will always be no. Whatever the crime.

Agaliarept - 30 Oct 2018 11:11:53 (#19 of 463)

I favour keeping these people locked up for the rest of their lives rather than allowing them to be martyrs to a cause. Similarly the likes of Bin Laden.

Interesting to mention BL. Has he become the global martyr some feared in death?

Seems the new bunch are bit more extreme then even BL was.

CarlosFandango - 30 Oct 2018 11:12:33 (#20 of 463)

Genuine security isn't bullshit.

But the notion that you can just "install security" by handing out weapons to bouncers at synagogues, churches, mosques, schools, Parisian concert venues, Newspaper offices, metro and bus stations is RW gun-lobby bullshit of the very highest order.

And on the death penalty. No. Because of all the reasons that have come to mean that it has been/is being largely phased-out in just about everywhere save China, the ME and, oddly, Vietnam.

One of the things you DP'ers tend to blithely overlook is that not everyone convicted of a capital crime is actually guilty. So arguing for the DP necessarily means that you are arguing for the state-sactioned and state-enacted murder of innocent people. You cannot dodge this.

It doesn't matter a jot whether or not there are cases for which the proof of guilt is utterly clear and undeniable. Once a guilty verdict is pronounced, all convicts fall into the same basket, regardless of how 'safe' their conviction.

This is only one thing you overlook. There are others, such as its proven ineffectiveness as a deterrent, it's phenomenal cost, and (clearly of no importance for many) the absurdity of trying to enforce a 'thou shalt not kill' rule through the use of killing. This is an extreme version of 'do as I say, not as I do', which has a poor history of popular acceptance.

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