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Started by brooklyn on Sep 27, 2020 7:19:54 PM
Debates: Presidential and Supreme Court

Some attention may well be due the Trump v Biden affairs, the Pence v Harris second feature, and the likely not-much-prettier discussions on Judge Barrett soon to come in the Senate. And while temporary, those events may well overwhelm our other US politics threads. I propose a focus on the temporary events here.

I'll start: guns v. votes, post 1.

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brooklyn - 27 Sep 2020 19:20:58 (#1 of 125)

it's over-simplistic to put it this way, but who cares. Judge Barrett thinks convicted felons can be deprived of the vote, but not their God-given right to possess a gun.

https://newrepublic.com/article/159512/amy-coney-barrett-wants-felons-guns-not-votes

Garden - 27 Sep 2020 19:38:03 (#2 of 125)

As far as I've been able to discern, the Conservative Judicial Philosophy centers around the belief that All Men Are Created Equal refers specifically and exclusively to white male landowners and that the rest of us actually have no natural rights and are a lesser species.

I've seen nothing in the Rabbit Woman's writings that have disabused me of that idea.

Garden - 27 Sep 2020 19:40:42 (#3 of 125)

The Conservative Judicial Philosophy can't possibly refer to what the FRAMERS MEANT because - if nothing else - they'd have said what they meant if they could anticipate the facts on the ground into the 21st century.

Maybe they didn't expect the republic to last this long. I don't know. But I do know that no judge has ever been able to predict which felons will be violent and which will not.

But I thought prevention of crime was a conservative value, which is why they love harsh sentences: If I see the sentence that guy got, I'm not going to break the law.

Or something like that.

brooklyn - 27 Sep 2020 19:42:39 (#4 of 125)

<<As far as I've been able to discern, the Conservative Judicial Philosophy centers around the belief that All Men Are Created Equal refers specifically and exclusively to white male landowners....>>

I think these days they'd expand it to cover white male owners of coops and condos.

Garden - 27 Sep 2020 19:45:22 (#5 of 125)

Well I certainly think they'd change landowners to Capitalists.

Coop owners? That's such a blue city thing.

brooklyn - 27 Sep 2020 19:56:10 (#6 of 125)

my wife and I are proud owners of a blue city coop.

anyway, I've always thought the "conservative judicial philosophy" was in substantial part a sham. most decisions about the constitution are about matters not made clear from the text. that's why things like "original intent" and "penumbras" are the focus of decisions. and those things usually are impossible to discern these 2 1/3 centuries later. what did the framers think about whether Congress could impose speed limits for travel on interstate highways?

the framers never thought about whether you had a right to an abortion or to walk around Times Square with an AK-47. and where they might have had such ideas, we can't know what they were. not even if you consider what Hamilton and Madison (and Jay) said in The Federalist Papers, pamphlets meant to persuade residents of New York after many states had already ratified the constitution.

Geribaldi - 27 Sep 2020 20:40:45 (#7 of 125)

We need a "living and breathing" Constitution, that way we can interpret it anyway we want and make it meaningless.

brooklyn - 27 Sep 2020 20:52:06 (#8 of 125)

no. but we want one that isn't ruled to mean, "there were no airplanes mentioned in the constitution. therefore there are no airplanes."

but I must say, geri. I'm sure I am already myself guilty of the contrary. but while I am delighted to see your comments, I meant to focus on what the Senators and witnesses will say, rather than what you, me, and our fellow posters will say about our current views. we'll see what those Washington worthies have to say about things like airplanes.

Geribaldi - 27 Sep 2020 21:15:18 (#9 of 125)

I'm guessing the Dems are feverishly trying to find someone real or imagined Judge Barrett sexually harassed or assaulted in her past so she can be rejected.

lammaMia - 27 Sep 2020 21:55:39 (#10 of 125)

We need a "living and breathing" Constitution, that way we can interpret it anyway we want and make it meaningless.

The meaning bubbles up from keeping the constitution dead by claiming its original intent is spelled out via a separate unratified book. Ho ho ho.

virgil5 - 27 Sep 2020 22:38:05 (#11 of 125)

As a 18C white male landowner, you had the privilege of being accepted by others of your ilk to form a "free state", and invent what your rights would be, like forming a well regulated militia so every male you approved could have the privilege of defending the rights made up by you and your friends in your 'free state".

King George didn't give you that "right". You gave it to yourself because you had the privilege to do so.

Likewise it could be called a privilege to be accepted to join a well regulated militia, not a right, where any asshole could barge into your militia and make it not "well regulated".

Therefore gun ownership in the 21C should be a privilege not a right.

makes as much sense as any of the crap Scalia put out

AdrianNTierney - 27 Sep 2020 23:51:18 (#12 of 125)

And if the Democrats were truly as incensed as you claim, then they would have a solution clear to hand.

So why have they never even attempted to use that strategy?

brooklyn - 28 Sep 2020 00:10:07 (#13 of 125)

I guess that the debaters are likely to debate about King George. so on that subject, I am happy to wait.

health care though. I suspect from one side there will be much about that. right after the notice in that in "trump 2020" we have over 202000 deaths.

the response will be "CHIIna." and "cupboard bare." hey, that fools a lot of folks. without a brain.

Garden - 28 Sep 2020 00:23:29 (#14 of 125)

Adrian must think Democrats have magical powers.

Though I must say, it's going to feel like someone waved a magic wand over red America when it sends three or four Democrats to the Senate this January.

brooklyn - 28 Sep 2020 00:45:15 (#15 of 125)

I wonder whether Joe will mention the word "tax" at any point in the first debate.

lammaMia - 28 Sep 2020 01:21:54 (#16 of 125)

And if the Democrats were truly as incensed as you claim, then they would have a solution clear to hand.

Guns shave legs thread ============>

Garden - 28 Sep 2020 01:36:17 (#17 of 125)

I am just loving this article in the NYT about Tr*mp's taxes.

Such thorough reporting!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/
donald-trump-taxes.html

virgil5 - 28 Sep 2020 02:01:02 (#18 of 125)

Neither Biden or Trump will speak about gun comtrol in any meaningful manner, because it's politcal suicide.

The SC will be loaded conservative, so not much will change about gun control regardless of who's "elected", meaning plenty of more gun deaths.

Plenty more death all around really. The USA is in love with death and eats violence like apple pie, like Malcolm X said.

If Trump wins, the trend towards more white supremacist violence will continue to increase. Probably also if Biden wins.

Race violence. Gender violence. Healthcare degradation. Terrorism. Plaque. Economic uncertainty.

The USA is fucked really, regardless of who "wins" these eyewash phony "debates". Stick a fork in it.

The "1SG"s of the world have "won" and now they can die easy knowing the USA will never change under their watch.

USA: "Great" again. RIP

Garden - 28 Sep 2020 02:02:41 (#19 of 125)

I'm tired of discussions about gun control anyway.

What I'd like to hear more of is discussions about reducing violence.

virgil5 - 28 Sep 2020 02:19:59 (#20 of 125)

Violence is enabled when the highest court in the land wants things to change as little as possible, and those things are a part of our violent past as human beings.

Our DNA is mostly chimps but even chimps would cringe at Auschwitz and Hiroshima. We're probably cracked without hope but we'll never know under people like Trump.

Or Biden probably.

Good luck to all. You're on your own really.

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