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Started by DogBreath on Jul 15, 2020 4:10:35 PM
Management consultants

Key Performance Indicators, Milestones, Deliverables, Agile, Lean, Six Sigma, 5S, Personal Improvement Plans, KANBAN, Just In Time....

All a load of crap; dangerous crap.

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Crayola - 22 Jul 2020 09:41:46 (#1 of 244)

Go on, I'll bite ...

I won't deny that management consultant speak is annoying, but:

  • KPI - How do you check things are working without some kind of indicator?
  • Milestone - How do you tell if something is on time without checking at a few points during it?
  • Deliverable - If you don't have a thing at the end that you're doing, why are you doing it?
  • Agile, Lean, Six Sigma, 5S, KANBAN - they are just names for processes that people have been doing for years - don't deny they are irritating, but what's wrong with people all knowing which process someone is using?
  • PIP - if someone's not that good at something they do at work, what's wrong with giving them a plan to get better at it?
  • Just in time I don't know much about, but isn't it to do with storage space of components? So getting them all at the same time - seems sensible enough?


I think the crux of this is the Personal Improvement Plan here, isn't it?

bossab2 - 22 Jul 2020 09:49:39 (#2 of 244)

borrows Crayolas watch

tasselhoff - 22 Jul 2020 10:24:03 (#3 of 244)

JIT is more of a logistics thing. And agile, kanban etc tend to be part of the software development process rather than management consulting.

And you forgot facilitation, post-its, company vision blah blah ...

tasselhoff - 22 Jul 2020 10:26:07 (#4 of 244)

And, basically, what Crayola said. Most of the terms are needed in both project management and solution architecture.

ReverendBlueJeans - 22 Jul 2020 10:30:05 (#5 of 244)

turns new page on flipchart

OK, so what've we got so far?

Tagyourit - 22 Jul 2020 10:30:34 (#6 of 244)

As Tass says those are project management terms not management consultancy one. Good luck delivering to time and budget without most of those concepts.

staticgirl - 22 Jul 2020 10:32:37 (#7 of 244)

And agile, kanban etc tend to be part of the software development process rather than management consulting.

Oh those things are infesting the civil service at the moment and used to for completely inappropriate projects and programmes where there isn't a 'thing' at the other end. It's great for website development, IT, developing products though.

Tagyourit - 22 Jul 2020 10:35:40 (#8 of 244)

I had a fairly senior Civil Servant who was, supposedly the Programme Manager, ask me if we could do all the scheduling for multi-billion pound project on PowerPoint. Sometimes Consultants are needed.

Crayola - 22 Jul 2020 10:35:51 (#9 of 244)

I like the idea of doing something without having something to create, a time in which to create it and a way to measure if it was a good thing to create.

I suspect dogbreath is on a PIP.

ReverendBlueJeans - 22 Jul 2020 10:35:58 (#10 of 244)

World Cafe consultations? Do they still happen?

Management training centres, former mansions in the countryside. Do they still exist.

FrankieTeardrop - 22 Jul 2020 10:36:14 (#11 of 244)

I like the idea of doing something without having something to create, a time in which to create it and a way to measure if it was a good thing to create.


Sounds like my job

Dayraven - 22 Jul 2020 10:40:19 (#12 of 244)

It's great for website development, IT, developing products though.

I'm working with Agile on fundamentally inflexible software projects, and it feels awkward and overengineered there. I do think it would suit more flexible projects better -- say, things like website or game development where there's less of a 'complete' or 'incomplete' end state, but a varying number of bells and whistles possible.

yumyum - 22 Jul 2020 10:43:35 (#13 of 244)

Personal Improvement Plan here,

Is this the same as Performance Management?

cozzer - 22 Jul 2020 11:02:45 (#14 of 244)

I suspect dogbreath is on a PIP.



- a

- I

+ C

bossab2 - 22 Jul 2020 11:04:08 (#15 of 244)

https://kanbantool.com/kanban-guide/kanban-history

Kanbans a production management technique which started in the car industry.

Crayola - 22 Jul 2020 11:17:57 (#16 of 244)

I am on an exceptionally non agile agile web project at the moment. I love that we do all the agile stuff and use all the tools when ultimately not doing anything agile.

Dementor - 22 Jul 2020 11:18:26 (#17 of 244)

KPIs - good, but it’s hard to measure what’s hard to measure, and you can set up perverse gamification if you’re not careful.

They’re an adjunct to good management, not a replacement.

tasselhoff - 22 Jul 2020 11:21:21 (#18 of 244)

They're mainly just metrics to ensure business goals are being met.

Shoots self

Crayola - 22 Jul 2020 11:21:36 (#19 of 244)

Management training centres, former mansions in the countryside

I've been to some crackers in my time as an organiser of training. But not done that for years. They probably do still exist but no one has the budget to send people there.

Lento_ - 22 Jul 2020 11:22:07 (#20 of 244)

I really like the Scrum side of Agile... but only where it fits. It's great for an existing product which is having a load of small features added to it e.g. new functions on a website. I find it less useful for things like the early R&D stage of a software project where you may not have a deliverable someone outside of the team would understand for several weeks.

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